Cash

[howie789]

The only asset I could have come 341 time is cash in the bank (I plan to file in October, 341 most likely in December)--I still will have a paycheck--barring a layoff or me getting fired--- my atty can exempt only $400, so will the creditors come after my cash above and beyond that $400? Even though it might be a puny amount to them (a lot for me though)?? I would like to have a little bit saved when my "fresh start" is official...

[SinkingFast]

When you get to that point, you time your filing.

We filed the day before payday. In our case, 90% of earned but unpaid wages were Exempt. We had bought Money Orders for bills and went grocery shopping so our bank acct was down to $18.

[demismom]

I agree with Sinking - we're trying to time ours so there's NO money in our accounts, we're paying our bills the day they come in!

[tay666]

I would quit putting money in the bank, and go strickly cash and money orders until your 341 is over.

[spell]

Here's the perspective to keep.
The trustee will liquidate assets only if it's worth his effort. Cash in the bank is ultra easy. All he has to do is ask you for a withdrawl. Don't make it so easy on him.
If you're a little above the limit of exemptable property, leave stuff he wouldn't want unshielded. If he's an @#&%, let him come get your 2 month stockpile of food or $400 of equity in a used computer or equity in a car that has a loan against it.

[FilingOnMyOwn]

Money is not that hard to get rid of. If you have over the $400 that can be exempted, you need to get rid of it. Pay some regular bills ahead of time and/or buy some necessities, etc.

[JollyGG]

Do be sure to check your exemptions first and be sure that earned but unpaid wages are exempt.
They are not in our state. I only get paid once a month and we filed 3 days before payday. That was a big chunck to try and exempt and we ended up loosing part of our Income tax refund as a result. In our case filing early in the month after mortage, student loans, and car were paid would have saved us the $357 our trustee got. Though I still say $357 is a small price to pay for wiping out 30,000 in debt.

[wayne-o]

sounds like a good time to start depositing money into the cookie jar and not the bank

[howie789]

a few questions:

1) is your OFFICIAL listing of ASSETS stated the day your BK is filed, or is it the day of the 341?

ex: I know cash would be my only asset. If I have $1,000 in my checking account lets say on Oct 15th (appx BK file date), is that my official total ASSETS OR is it official the day of the 341 (lets say Dec 1st)?

2) if its the day of the 341, lets say I have $1200 in my cking acct on Nov 20th, can I take out $800 of it and sock it away until after Dec 1st, or would that be FRAUD?

3) should I stop direct deposit (i have that now) soon, and if I stop, can I just not cash my checks I've hoarded before Dec 1st??..should any major withdrawals be made lets say by July 15th (90 days before BK)? I don't think I'm "hiding" anything, but would that be considered FRAUD (in this example), or is it safe to hoard your pay??

4) after Dec 1st (the 341), can the trustee take any of my pay to pay creditors, or are they barred from taking anything??


Just wondering, thanks for your help people.

[SinkingFast]

I was probably way more paranoid than you need to be, but this is what I/We did,..............

Hubby stopped Direct Deposit of his paychecks about 6 months prior to filing. We continued to deposit his paycheck into our bank acct. We wanted the Trustee to see a flow of money into and out of our bank acct. The same as before DD was discontinued.

We paid all our utilities and such with Money Orders. We got a Cashier's Check at the Bank for our rent every month. We used our Debit Cards to purchase most everything else. Groceries, gasoline, you name it,........ It went on the Debit Card.

We saved every receipt, Money Order stub, and Cashier's Check stub. Money was always automatically gone. No waiting on checks to clear the bank. And we intentionally kept our bank balance low the whole time.

That way, if someone does get a Banking Institution Judgement against you, there's nothing in your bank acct to take.

[SinkingFast]

a few questions:

1) is your OFFICIAL listing of ASSETS stated the day your BK is filed, or is it the day of the 341?

ex: I know cash would be my only asset. If I have $1,000 in my checking account lets say on Oct 15th (appx BK file date), is that my official total ASSETS OR is it official the day of the 341 (lets say Dec 1st)?

2) if its the day of the 341, lets say I have $1200 in my cking acct on Nov 20th, can I take out $800 of it and sock it away until after Dec 1st, or would that be FRAUD?

3) should I stop direct deposit (i have that now) soon, and if I stop, can I just not cash my checks I've hoarded before Dec 1st??..should any major withdrawals be made lets say by July 15th (90 days before BK)? I don't think I'm "hiding" anything, but would that be considered FRAUD (in this example), or is it safe to hoard your pay??

4) after Dec 1st (the 341), can the trustee take any of my pay to pay creditors, or are they barred from taking anything??


Just wondering, thanks for your help people.

The BK Estate is set the day you file. Cash you have in the bank, on hand, the day you file is an Asset of the Estate. You have to cover it with an Exemption or loose it. Unless you spend it before you file.

Always stick to necessities. That's the safe route when you're spending cash pre-BK.

Personally, I wouldn't hoard pay. If you're asked to show a year's worth of Bank Acct Statements, you want them all to look similar. Money in, money out. Business as usual.

Anything you earn after the day you file is not part of the BK Estate.

If you cannot cover your Income Tax Refund(s) with an Exemption, the Trustee can take a prorated portion of that based on when you filed. An October filing could potentially equal 10/12ths of your Income Tax Refund monies.

[howie789]

So I could win the lottery ONE day after my BK is filed, and it is not part of the BK estate? the trustee can only go after any funds prior to the BK filing date and not after??

[DeadManCrawling]

So I could win the lottery ONE day after my BK is filed, and it is not part of the BK estate? the trustee can only go after any funds prior to the BK filing date and not after??

Oddly, this depends. In Florida, the wackiest state, lottery winnings would be exempt, but they WOULDN'T be exempt, either.
If you win lottery here during the BK, anytime from filing to closing, lotto winnings would be factored in-UNLESS you took the annuity 20 year payoff, in which case they are exempt.

For instance. I win a 60 million dollar lotto drawing. I decide to take the lump sum payout of ,oh, perhaps 32 million. Well, that is NOT exempt, and I would be forced to pay off my measly 80k in CC debt. Dear me.

But you can decide HOW you want to be paid with the lotto here. I could take a lump sum or a yearly payoff the day I turn the ticket in.

If I wanted to (and believe me, I SO want to) I could opt for an annyal payout of 5 mil or so. In this case, in an annual payment, it is AN ANNUITY, which is entirely exempt in Florida, even as a lotto prize.

I would have 60 MIL, and the annuity (lottery annual payout) is EXEMPT.

I woudl still be discharged and closed, leaving the CC companies with. . .NOTHING.

Would love to have that happen. Tidy revenge for the bastards who have cost me so much.

Perhaps I am vengeful. If so, I feel I have earned it.



DMC

[SinkingFast]

So I could win the lottery ONE day after my BK is filed, and it is not part of the BK estate? the trustee can only go after any funds prior to the BK filing date and not after??

This has actually happened.

http://www.bankruptcyforum.com/showt...hlight=lottery

You can read how the Court handled that particular case.

[CindyLou]

The more you live cash and carry the less there is for the trustee to sit and mull over. If its not more than say, one paycheck, I dont' really see how they would track it or really care to track it if you haven't deposited it in your account. It would better protect you from scrutiny.