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    401K Loan Repayments

    We were just talking about this on here the other day. It appears that you CAN and SHOULD take loans on your 401K if you are above median income b/c the loan repayments are deductible on the means test. So, if you need money for something major like I do (possible new pipes in my house and a new AC unit), take out the money from your 401K, buy it now and then deduct the loan repayments on your means test to lower your disposable income. Seems too good to be true but there it is in black and white.



    Using 401k Loans To Qualify For Chapter 7
    People with financial problems often tap into retirement accounts to pay necessary expenses. Consumers with 401k plans sometimes have the choice of borrowing from their plan or taking distributions. Taking loans, rather than distributions, from a 401k can have advantages if you ultimately have to file Chapter 7 bankruptcy. Distributions trigger some income tax liability and possible early withdrawal penalties. If you file bankruptcy the balance in the 401k would be exempt. If you take a loan from your 401k, the amount of monthly payments to your plan are deductible for purposes of calculating your disposable income under the means test. Sometimes it pays to purposefully take a loan just prior to bankruptcy to pay medical expenses , health insurance, past-due secured debts, and/or bankruptcy attorneys fees in order to show a significant 401k loan payment under the means test calculation. This is an example of how the new law calls for advanced bankruptcy planning for debtors above median income who are therefore subject to means testing.
    11/14/07 -filed C7 12/04/07 -case pulled for random audit.12/18/07 -341 held: Asset case due to engagement ring & tax return.02/19/08 - US trustee files motion to extend. 04/02/08- changed back to NO ASSET! I get my ring back and get to keep my tax return! :clapping: 04/28/08 -DISCHARGED!!! :yahoo::yahoo: 05/07/08 - CLOSED!!!

    #2
    Oh Lord - now I just found this!

    Rajaspin adalah solusi untuk pengalaman bermain yang lancar dan menyenangkan. Nikmati kecepatan akses, fitur menarik, dan akses eksklusif dengan akun resmi Rajaspin X500. Login mudah dan aman, mulailah petualangan seru Anda sekarang!
    11/14/07 -filed C7 12/04/07 -case pulled for random audit.12/18/07 -341 held: Asset case due to engagement ring & tax return.02/19/08 - US trustee files motion to extend. 04/02/08- changed back to NO ASSET! I get my ring back and get to keep my tax return! :clapping: 04/28/08 -DISCHARGED!!! :yahoo::yahoo: 05/07/08 - CLOSED!!!

    Comment


      #3
      Our income was above the median and we filed Chapter 7 with using my 401k loans as a deduction...
      Filed Chap 7 6/30/06 - 341 Meeting 8/1/06 -
      Deadline for objections 10/10/06
      US Trustee extended deadline to 12/9/06
      Dishcharged 12/29/2006

      Comment


        #4
        I had 2 401k plans from my day and my night job. With loan repayments and socking extra 7-8% towards the 401k I was saving about $600-$700 a month.

        If I didn't have those loans and extra savings - I could see myself paying not only $800 disposable income but an additional $600-$700 (total $1500 payback in my Ch13) SHREWWW thanks to the exemption! I boosted those percentages before I filed so it would be reflected on my paystubs. The lawyer smiled and the Trustee grinned but what could he do!

        Just My 2 cents, CMIYC
        July 2006: Filed Ch13 :blink:
        Oct 2006: Converted to Ch7 :clapping:
        Jan 2007: DISCHARGED :clapping:
        Nov 2007: CLOSED :yahoo::yahoo::yahoo:

        Comment


          #5
          Wow, I guess this is a state-to-state issue.
          In mine, 401k contributions are not a means test deduction. We're only allowed to use "mandatory retirement plans" The loan repayment is a grey area.
          We're allowed plenty of weird deductions like "telecomunications for the welfare of dependants."

          But as always, the trustee could have claimed bad faith and you would have been painted into a corner trying to justify why when debts were mounting, you increased your retirement savings.

          Comment


            #6
            We have an active objection to our Ch 13 case that was filed by our trustee because we are paying back my husband's six retirement loans while we both continue to make contributions to our retirement. The latest case law is leaning toward allowing repayment of retirement loans during bankruptcy while continuing contributions but it's not consistent between trustees and bk judges at this point. Also if you don't pay back the 401K loan within a year, the typical 10% tax hit on the remaining amount owed at the end of the year will kill you when the next year's taxes are due. Like so many things, what looks easy on the surface is booby-trapped with all kinds of unexpected outcomes. Proceed with caution!
            I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice nor a statement of the law - only a lawyer can provide those.

            06/01/06 - Filed Ch 13
            06/28/06 - 341 Meeting
            07/18/06 - Confirmation Hearing - not confirmed, 3 objections
            10/05/06 - Hearing to resolve 2 trustee objections
            01/24/07 - Judge dismisses mortgage company objection
            09/27/07 - Confirmed at last!
            06/10/11 - Trustee confirms all payments made
            08/10/11 - DISCHARGED !

            10/02/11 - CASE CLOSED
            Countdown: 60 months paid, 0 months to go

            Comment


              #7
              We have an active objection to our Ch 13 case that was filed by our trustee because we are paying back my husband's six retirement loans while we both continue to make contributions to our retirement. The latest case law is leaning toward allowing repayment of retirement loans during bankruptcy while continuing contributions but it's not consistent between trustees and bk judges at this point. Also if you don't pay back the 401K loan within a year, the typical 10% tax hit on the remaining amount owed at the end of the year will kill you when the next year's taxes are due. Like so many things, what looks easy on the surface is booby-trapped with all kinds of unexpected outcomes. Proceed with caution!

              I hear THAT! Let me tell you. First THANK GOODNESS I was able to convert to Ch7. BUT there was a price I had to pay. When I started my day job, I took out a general purpose loan to pay off my Honda, planning on sticking with the company until my loan was paid off in the course of 5 years. (It was a $12,000 loan I was paying back "myself," with interest). Since I took the choice of quitting one job just so I could convert to Ch7, I ended up defaulting on the $12,000 (even though I had to already paid down $4000 of the loan). The "Double Taxing," as I call it hit me hard! Not only was I taxed plus penalties for defaulting but also taxed again at the end of the year. I'm working owing $4000 to the IRS! ! ! So I really weighed out my options when I decided to quit just to convert and pay nothing through the BK. I'm still glad I made THAT choice though!

              Best of Luck, CMIYC
              July 2006: Filed Ch13 :blink:
              Oct 2006: Converted to Ch7 :clapping:
              Jan 2007: DISCHARGED :clapping:
              Nov 2007: CLOSED :yahoo::yahoo::yahoo:

              Comment

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