Advice ??

[bige1030]

In my local area you are allowed to claim up to $800 per month for ownership costs on form B22 for a filer with two cars (per line 22). That is a BK court freebie. Any outstanding payments on either of two cars are deducted from that freebie figure ( per Line 23 and 24). So, let's say you have two payments on these autos totaling $500. Once you deduct those payments, you get to put $300 down on form B22, instead of the $800 that I get to put down. Now, when you scoot over to line 42, you get to put down your car payments. I don't since in this example, I don't have payments. BUT you don't get to put down the $500 figure, instead you figure out how much you still owe the lenders and divide that number by 60. If you still have say, 40 months of payments (40x$500) you get to put down $333, NOT the $500. Why? because your total owned on these vehicles is 20K and you have to divide that by 60. Soooo, let's see where you are: You have reduced your monthly income by $300 on one line of form B22 and by $333 on another line, for a total of $633.

WRONG! The deduction from the transportation ownership/lease expense is exactly equal to the payment deducted later on. Read the forms B22A and B22C to see this.

AGAIN, the advice to go out and purchase a new car so the payment can be used in the Means Test Calculations is only suggested by people who do not understand how the calculations work.

First of all, the idea of purchasing a new car is completely IRRELEVANT in this case, as the OP wants to keep the car she's already been paying on. Secondly, I have read the forms and gone through my own, and I damned well understand how the calculations work. I have bachelor's degrees in computer science and mathematics, and I could tell you more than a thing or two about the analysis of algorithms. I recognize the means test as an algorithm with complicated inputs, but otherwise quite simple to run.

Clearly you can cut and paste code, but did you ever fill out and file a Means Test Calculations worksheet?

My lawyer filed mine, but before I was considering hiring a lawyer, I did, in fact, go through the B22A, and I got the same result he did.

The answer to that question, though, is IRRELEVANT to whether one actually understands the means test. The implicature here is that completion and filing of a B22A or C implies understanding of it. We'll see that implicature fall flat here:

Suppose that it were relevant, and further suppose that someone had filed a form B22A that s/he completed incorrectly. That person did complete the form and did file it, so s/he must understand it. However, this person had completed it incorrectly, so s/he doesn't understand it. Contradiction.

I think, though, insulting people's intelligence is uncalled for.

[no_it_all]

WRONG! The deduction from the transportation ownership/lease expense is exactly equal to the payment deducted later on.

The amortized payment (over 60 months) listed on line 23b (for one car) and line 24b (for second car) should be the same as entered on line 42a and 42b.
You are correct.

So, how <exactly> does this work?

If you need that expense to claim against your income in order to pass the means test, that's another issue all together.

The payment is deducted on line 23b, and added on line 42a. I know you have a degree in Mathemetics, put I guess it isn't in Computational Mathematics is it?? Do you NOW understand why saying having a car payment to claim against her income will help her pass the Means Test is incorrect? Why? because the BK gives the OP about $471 for expenses for her car, even if she dosn't have a payment!! Her "payment" as it were, will do absolutely nothing for reducing her income as it related to the Mean Test Calculations...It will simply be taken out on one line (23b) and added in on another line!! (42a) net result? ZERO change in income! EXACTLY the same as if she had NO payment and just used the Standardized Local Expenses...sheesh!!!

[IvoryAngel]

No It All

FYI some people do not care to be entertained they just want good honest advice and or suggestions. I feel like you have hijacked my thread. I mean really make your point and move on.

[IvoryAngel]

Good News! I called my attourney today and he found out that it is a go. According to many attourneys this can be a "non secured debit" I maybe wrong on that. But any ways according to him you dont have to claim anything money transactions for under 600.00 in 3mths?? Again I may not have the correct info. I was just so excited that he said I was good to go I missed the particulars. He said chances are trustee wont make the "friend" give the money back because its not much monies lost per month $220 or less depending. I pay a steady $220 to make my payments go faster. But most times the note is $175. So I am good.

Thanks for all the Help and Wonderful Advice once again!!! You guys and gals are GREAT!!

[bige1030]

But any ways according to him you dont have to claim anything money transactions for under 600.00 in 3mths??

That's correct. The only exception to that is payments to insiders - for which the lookback period is 1 year. Insiders are relatives, general partners, affiliates, and their relatives.

Again I may not have the correct info. I was just so excited that he said I was good to go I missed the particulars. He said chances are trustee wont make the "friend" give the money back because its not much monies lost per month $220 or less depending. I pay a steady $220 to make my payments go faster. But most times the note is $175. So I am good.

I'm glad your attorney was able to give you his reassurances! Keep us posted on how the case goes