Car repossed with payments current.

[Riptides]

Wife and I filed for Bankruptcy back in September. We had our hearing, was approved, and discharged from BK here recently.

We got a loan reaffirmation on our main vehicle during the filing with help from the lawyer. Everything was accepted on the vehicle and we never stopped making payments on the vehicle. AGAIN, we have NEVER missed a payment on the car since if we lost the car one of us would lose our job.

The vehicle in question was repossed last night, we have not gotten any letters, any phonecalls, all payments are current, and they still took our vehicle.

At first we reported the vehicle stolen, but the police showed up and told us they had it on file that it had just been Repo'd and pretty much their hands were tied and we must contact the financier to hopefully recover all our proptery in the vehicle. Unfortunately the vehilce contains alot of my wifes sensitive work information as well as the keys to the building she works in, and if this property alone is lost she could very well be in legal trouble since she works at a bank.

Whlie I am at home waiting for the time to pass for the businesses I need to contact are open, I am wanting any information dealing with this.

I was thinking that there has to certainly be some sort of protocol in place to warn us of the impending repossion? If not whats to stop companies from arbitrarily repossesing cars without warning?

Is what they have done legal since we have current payments (no missed payments, no late payments) and have recived no prior warning?

We do have money in the bank, a token amount saved since filing, but it is enough to have covered two more car payments if needed, so if it was a question of misplaced money any warning of such could have been dealt with and taken care of.

I don't know what we can do, or what rights we may have. As I said before, the loss of one of our cars is pretty much the loss of a job in our household.

Thanks.

[miss puff]

Hi Riptides... I am sure this is scary and frustrating for you. So, you completed and signed the reaffirmation agreement? And payments are current? Then yah, I would say you have a leg to stand on. Did you use an attorney? I would have your attorney call them and remind them that the vehicle has been reaffirmed and payments are current. Hopefully they will see it as a mistake and return it? I guess I am not sure how this works, I am sure someone here does though. Have you gotten through to your loan company?

[Riptides]

Yes we completed and signed an affirmation agreement with our lawyer.There were some initial problems in getting it accepted, the original financier didn't want to allow this but eventually relented and had a sister company take over our loan.

Payments were never missed altho there was a moment when the original company rejected payment and we had to forward payment to the new company around the time of the BK filing, but we have NOT missed any payments with them. Money has gone out of our checking account to them each month since.

We have a lawyer who we want to contact first before pursuing conversation with anyone else at the moment. We are just waiting for him to arrive at work and contact us back now.

Right now our biggest fear is one of us losing our job, and if it comes down to it, my wife makes more money than me and I can step down from what I do now and work around getting my wife to work and find something to do partime for myself. But what complicates things is that if her works property in the vehicle has already been disposed of or stolen, could also cost her her job as well as leading to possible charges since there was sensitive data and items in the vehicle.

[AMISLANDER]

I had a leased SUV repo'd when I was at a court day a few years back...came out to my parking spot after court & NO 4RUNNER...all that remained to know I had not lost my mind was my Reese's wrapper in the garbage retainer next to my parking spot. The police told me it had been repo'd not stolen, they gave me the name of the repo company who would not release my property without payment of $150. The truck was another issue.

But as far as the personal property goes, you need to get on that immediately with the repo company and find out how to get it back while you deal with the other issue.

[Riptides]

I'm not trying to make excuses in the least but my wife had to go in for surgery at 6am this morning, which is why we are both off work today. Yes, when it rains around here, it pours.

The vehicle is completely in her name, and while I can call and deal with the lawyer I am waiting on her mother to drop her off so she can contact the financier and go from there as they will not talk to me since my name isn't associated with the vehicle.

So still waiting on the lawyer to call back and waiting on my wife to arrive home to get the ball rolling on the other.

My main goal for her is to find out where the vehicle is currently at and how to retrieve our belongings and get out there today to try to get our property back.

[Riptides]

Update:

Unless it's wrong to do so I am going to name company names to make it easier.

Right now the original financier "Capital One" had the vehicle repossed for Non-Payment. The company we were moved to on our reaffirmation was "Ascention Captial".

Ascention Capital has been taking our payments and not forwarding them to Captial One. At this point it is going to obviously be out of our hands and going into the lap of our lawyer.

Our vehicle has been located, and is on the other side of the state at this moment, about 2 1/2 hours away.

I think I need to go throwup again.


UPDATE2: Capital One is denying ever recieving or signing a reaffirmation agreement although our lawyer has it on file.
According to them we are 115 days behind. .... Where in the hell was our money going to?

UPDATE3: Capital One is hanging up on our lawyers office everytime they call.

[onlineuse]

I had a recent situation with Nissan Motor Acceptance doing something fairly similar. We'd signed a few leases on the same day each personally guaranteed by a different person. We drove off with the vehicles and all was well for 30 months until the crisis hit. In the interim I had traded in my vehicle for another Nissan. Well, when things got tight in 2006 I apparently short paid a single bill about $300 (1/2 the payment). 20 days after this payment was late and after being on time with them for almost 12 years (never owned another car) a repo guy comes knocking at 2am. Nice fellow, took the car. Next day I speak with Nissan as I'm baffled as to why they took the car after being on time for 177 payments prior to this one. Turns out the morons had my name on a vehicle I was not actually the owner of and I had sold off someone elses vehicle a year earlier. Yeah, that's right, the papers somehow got crossed up and I was actually allowed to terminate a lease I did not guarantee and take out a new lease so I had two effectively in my name and the other one was late 45 days. I got the vehicle back but not after incredible trauma. I know how you feel, it was the worst day/night of my life.

The repo people were really cool. Most are just doing what they are told. After being so loyal as to lease from one company and buy from one company my entire adult life I'll never own, recommend or even sit in a Nissan if I can avoid it. They didn't even have the courtesy to treat a life long customer to a phone call to clarify.

I don't remember the hoops I had to jump through to get it back, but I know it took a huge amount of pushing because there are serious legal ramifications when this happens. In addition we were out about $500 that we never got back from Nissan. Afterwards they did the same type of thing you talk about, we paid for two months to my social instead of account number because the lease was closed. They said don't worry, we'll apply them. At 75 days they still hadn't setup a new account and when they finally did none of the previous months payments were there. Fearing ANOTHER repo I drove the car to a Nissan dealer and told them to shove it, had them take it back on the spot. I later got a bill for like $2800 in "damage" which was another royal scre*ing. In 10+ leases I'd never been charged $5 for damage as I keep vehicles in immaculate shape. AFTER I terminated the lease guess what? They found 3 months/2500 in payments and applied that to the balance. Never, ever again. I really enjoyed adding them to the BK.

Keep your chin up, you did nothing wrong.

[Riptides]

Afterwards they did the same type of thing you talk about, we paid for two months to my social instead of account number because the lease was closed. They said don't worry, we'll apply them.

Nail meet hammer, you hit that one on the head. After the bankruptcy filing that's what my wife had to do as well. Her account number was closed, so they told her to use her social for her account number instead.

Keep your chin up, you did nothing wrong.

Thanks for the support, but I have to disagree, what we did wrong was not recognize we were about to be screwed out of 5 months of car payments when CapOne coniption fitted over our filing. Basically they just waited until our discharge, then took both our money and our vehicle. But I understand what you mean, really in hindsight, our only 2 choices were to include the car in the filing and lose it, or keep paying someone else and lose it. What upsets me the most is that we filed BK just to get away from stuff like this.

So what's happening now?
Okay, here is the thing, we can get NO concrete answers from anyone. My wife called the creditors twice, got told 2 different stories, caught them lieing and called them on it only to be hung up on during one of the calls. She then compared notes with our lawyer who was also told a tall tale of ambiguity after he got through to them.

Basically CapOne claims we have not made a payment in 5 months. But they also claim we have paid every month and they returned our payments back to our bank account, which we find hard to believe since my wife used cashiers checks for 2 payments through her bank right after our filing. They also told us that they were never under any obligation to inform us of our account status. The lawyer says they have enough plausible deniabilty because they (CapOne) can say they sent us letters when they never did.

As far as we can get an answer our "account" with them was terminated last month, the same month as our discharge. So basically there is no car at this point to get back as they claim to have "retrieved their stolen property". The money we paid out.. That's looking to be gone as well. And we were told if we want to pursue it further it would mean going to court. And spending more money to try to get back around 2k doesn't make sense at this point.

The only good news is that we got nearly ALL our stuff from the vehicle this afternoon, but they refused to give us back our XM system I installed in the car last year until I told them I would have to report that item as stolen to cancel the XM account, and the guy ran out and grabbed the faceplate unit and threw it at us in disgust as we were about to leave.

But, now here we are again, and I feel just like I did right around the time we came to the decision to file BK. Also I'm tired of worrying, I've spent far too much time in the past worrying over money and it's time for me to spend the rest of the evening tending to my wife who looks like a science freak with all the tubes in her wrist from her surgery this morning. Yes, there are still a few things to work out in the future.. oh like.. how are we going to both keep our jobs with one vehicle, but that's not important this very minute, we still have our health, minus one gimpy RSI'd arm.

I would also like to add, for anyone reading this, our story should not be taken as what will happen to anyone here attempting to file for BK in the future. But it still should serve as a warning that if you are trying to file and keep a vehicle, and things don't "look and feel" right with how they want you to proceed with continuing payments, then it might be best to rethink keeping that vehicle because now we are looking at another debt within months of our filing.

Thanks for the replies, I will stay active in this topic for a few days until it's run it's course, so feel free to reply to this thread with any questions or suggestions and I will take the time to return and answer.

[onlineuse]

There's a couple of ways of looking at it. You did use the car, and if you were paying only $400 a month or thereabouts you paid less than you would have for a rental, or for a down payment/new payment term on a new car even if you had perfect credit. IE, at a minimum you'd have paid $600 a month to rent a car, and probably paid $1k out of pocket for expenses just to buy something. So it's a PITA for you, but at least you did use it.

I am so glad you wrote back with your story. Let this thread be a warning to everyone about car leases/purchases and repo. Like I said, I was an ideal customer for well over a decade and they came and took my car. After they realized the mistake and gave it back I paid for months without getting proper credit. The checks came back paid, but they weren't applying it. It wasn't until after I turned it in that they finally reported the "lost" payments. JMHO, a repo was imminent and just like you they were going to take the money.

In the interim consider off season rentals from Enterprise and others. They offer excellent long term deals this time of year that would not be much in excess of your past payment. If you do not have a charge card you will need the optional rider on your insurance policy which is about $100.

Also keep in mind you could probably buy a replacement even right out of BK.

[Granny]

Just curious why you all are paying with checks or money orders and not paying online, electronically? Seems it would add an extra layer of proof that payment was made and less likely that the payment would be returned. Am I taking a risk by paying this way with my car?

[SinkingFast]

There are more than a few people who post here that they file an Intent to Reaffirm. Then never actually go thru with it. Hoping to "Ride Thru" as that's no longer allowed under New Law.

We, long time posters and Mods, have been wondering if that's gonna come back to bite someone in the butt. Lenders aren't interested when the property is even or upside down on LTV. But when equity becomes significant, the Lender may sing a different tune.

Evidently, as your particular case shows, even a Reaffirmation Agreement is no guarantee of security to keeping property.

[LostOne0069]

I go one beyond paying online and set up automatic payments... that way I can check my account online every day and make sure that the payment is taken out... thus, theoretically, since the transaction is initiated at the bank, as long as that payment posts to my account... the bank got their money.

[Granny]

online payments and car payments

We had automatic deductions setup online too, back when we were a two income family with no grandkids to raise. The day I had to cancel the automatic deductions was the day I knew we were in trouble. Funny I hadn't thought about that until now, of course the trouble started before then, but that was the day I recognized it or admitted it. Oh well, live an learn.

But this thread has me concerned. We owe 2 more payments on my car, so we have equity in it at this point. We are paying outside the plan and we run about 29 days late with the payment. I haven't even had my 341 meeting yet. Since we are paying outside the plan, will we get a clear title when the last payment is made or do they have some excuse to keep it? Yes, they filed a claim and it was a few pennies less than the amount stated as a pay off on the last statement before I filed. I haven't signed anything as far as a reaffirmation goes.

Any thoughts would be appreciated

[Riptides]

We had been doing electronic payments from our savings account until we filed for BK and did a reaffirmation. That's the point that CapOne rejected our August payment and moved us to "Ascention Capital" to process our payments. AFAIK "Ascention" was just there to process our payments and my wife was told to use her social in lieu of her account number for the payments. When this changed we were unable to access our CapOne account via the internet anymore.

My wife then used cashiers checks (not money orders) to make 2 monthly payments because we had no checking account at the time of filing and had no other way to send them money.

In October, after our BK hearing, we got a "checking" account specifically for paying for the vehicle using physical checks, since all our other bills were local utilities and we could handle those with cash. That's how we know our money was going out and not being sent back.

[LostOne0069]

That really sucks... I guess you can only do your best... and sometimes the bad guys win.

Although, I'd fight this one as much as I could... and my recently aquired distrust of attorneys has me wonder if you shouldn't make a bunch of your own calls.