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    Schedule J and Monthly Living Expenses

    My attorney prepared and filed the Schedule J . He only allowed 275.00 for food for a family of 5, zero for clothing, and he cut my medical expenses and utilitities in half, you get the picture. I didn't balk at the numbers at the time because I just didn't know any better.

    I believe he did this to get the payments to something reasonable, $1250.00. We failed the means test, so we should have qualified for a 36 month plan, but he set it at 47 months to cover the secured and prority claims, with nothing to the 23K unsecured debt. Now, according to NDC, we are set for 60 months.

    We are raising our grandchildren, who we have adopted, and they are small children who out grow their clothes twice a year. I can't live on the budget that he proposed, it doesn't even come close to the measly IRS standards. I have receipts for every expense we incur.

    For what it is worth, a large portion of my secured debt is for a corporate business asset that we had to personally guarantee and he told me we could include it to reduce the monthly payment on it. The rest of the secured debt is mortgage arrears and the priority is tax debt for the business.

    Sixty months with no clothes for the kids, 125.00 for electric would not allow my to turn on my A/C in the summer or the heat in the winter and we would be eating nothing but PB&J. What can I do to restore my budget to something liveable? My 341 meeting is 11 days from now.

    Oh and one more question, I filed alone and my husband also has some CC debt and there is nothing in the budget to pay his CC payments. Is it supposed to work that way?
    Last edited by Granny; 01-13-2007, 10:55 PM. Reason: left out a sentence
    I used to have a life, now I have grandkids.

    #2
    I would have disputed this if you have a family of 5 I would hardly think 275 is reasonable food expense. You allowed a certain amount by the IRS standards, I would use those standards to the maximum amount allowed. I don't think the lawyer is right betting on what might me acceptable payments to the Trustee! Sure, if you were like me, I lived pretty cheap and even fell below the maximum IRS standards being single, no kids.

    Just my thoughts, Catchmeifyoucan
    July 2006: Filed Ch13 :blink:
    Oct 2006: Converted to Ch7 :clapping:
    Jan 2007: DISCHARGED :clapping:
    Nov 2007: CLOSED :yahoo::yahoo::yahoo:

    Comment


      #3
      Granny, a little more information would be helpful. What state did you file in? What was your annual income for the six months before you filed? How much secured, priority, and unsecured debt did you have? Are you trying to keep your house and that's why you filed Ch 13?
      Last edited by lrprn; 01-14-2007, 01:30 PM.
      I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice nor a statement of the law - only a lawyer can provide those.

      06/01/06 - Filed Ch 13
      06/28/06 - 341 Meeting
      07/18/06 - Confirmation Hearing - not confirmed, 3 objections
      10/05/06 - Hearing to resolve 2 trustee objections
      01/24/07 - Judge dismisses mortgage company objection
      09/27/07 - Confirmed at last!
      06/10/11 - Trustee confirms all payments made
      08/10/11 - DISCHARGED !

      10/02/11 - CASE CLOSED
      Countdown: 60 months paid, 0 months to go

      Comment


        #4
        Little more info

        Filed in Texas to save the house

        Income before filing per Sch I
        Gross Debtor 315 Spouse 3750
        Rental Income 450.00 (from Corp for storeage, etc)
        Combined Average Income 3754

        Difference is taxes

        Unsecured 23K
        Secured :business asset 33K
        mortage arrears 4.7k
        Mortgage 98K (to be paid outside plan)
        auto 1.2K (to be paid outside plan)
        Priority: atty fee 2700
        business taxes 7100
        I used to have a life, now I have grandkids.

        Comment


          #5
          341 Meeting is this week

          My 341 Meeting is coming this week. I sent my attorney a long email explaining my concerns about the amounts on Schedule J and I received an auto-repsonder reply that he prefers a letter or a fax. After the auto responder reply, I spoke to him regarding a threaten repo and at that time asked him to read the email and call me at his convenience. He indicated that he would, but I haven't heard from him. I plan to call his office and fax him on Monday, but what if I don't hear from him before the meeting on Thursday? We can't possibly live on what he put into the plan (it doesn't even meet the IRS standards) and I am terrified to go to the 341 meeting with this budget in place. I realize that my secured debts are the biggest part of my plan, but why should I pay anything to the unsecureds for months 48 through 60 if I don't even have enough to live on (refer to my first post for the expenses that were cut or set to zero). Again my income is below the state median, he orginally told me 47 months but the NDC indicates 60 months. Using Excel, I have determined that the secureds will be paid in 48 months (with interest).

          Can I fire him before the meeting and retain some else? Any other suggestions?
          I used to have a life, now I have grandkids.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Granny View Post
            Can I fire him before the meeting and retain some else? Any other suggestions?
            You could, but you would be assuming that another lawyer could "fix" things and get you a lower monthly payment or a better distribution of expenses. And at this late date with your 341 looming, finding a lawyer by Thursday who would be willing to go into a 341 using another lawyer's figures is slim to none. However, a new lawyer could ask for a reschedule however due to change in legal representation to allow time for a second look. The problem is that even with a new lawyer, you may still end up where you can't pay the monthly Ch 13 payment necessary to close everything out in five years.

            It seems the big gorilla in your case is the business debt that you personally guaranteed. In trying to get your Ch 13 payment down to something payable, your lawyer cut your living expenses way beyond what is reasonable. Did you speak to any other bankruptcy lawyers before you retained the one you filed with?
            I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice nor a statement of the law - only a lawyer can provide those.

            06/01/06 - Filed Ch 13
            06/28/06 - 341 Meeting
            07/18/06 - Confirmation Hearing - not confirmed, 3 objections
            10/05/06 - Hearing to resolve 2 trustee objections
            01/24/07 - Judge dismisses mortgage company objection
            09/27/07 - Confirmed at last!
            06/10/11 - Trustee confirms all payments made
            08/10/11 - DISCHARGED !

            10/02/11 - CASE CLOSED
            Countdown: 60 months paid, 0 months to go

            Comment


              #7
              No, unfortunately, I didn't. I went with this one because he was previously employed by the law firm that represents my mortgage company, and we were facing foreclosure, and for some silly reason, I thought that was important.

              I guess at this point I will put this whole mess in God's hands and hope for the best.

              IF and that's a big IF, we immediately increase our income, would the trustee allow for more reasonable living expenses before he would require the extra income to be paid into the plan?

              Thanks in advance.
              Last edited by Granny; 01-21-2007, 04:14 PM.
              I used to have a life, now I have grandkids.

              Comment


                #8
                Update

                I fired the attorney after the 341 meeting.

                He wouldn't return my calls (3), he wouldn't accept email (I received an auto reply that he wanted letters), and he wouldn't accept faxes.

                He sent in a pitch hitter in his place at the 341 meeting, although he was in the building. I had letters from the business creditor that stated they would begin collection efforts the next week and this idiot pitch hitter was so excited over the letters, that he literally was doing a happy dance during the recorded meeting with the trustee's rep. I had just told this guy before the meeting that the income on Schedule I was understated because the attorney used the wrong figures for the income, among other errors in the petition. I was worried about fraud and he's excited about a potential lawsuit for violating the stay....BFD (I'm in bankruptcy, so what if there's a suit, I doubt I get nada, I filed bankruptcy, anything I won would go to unsecured) BTW, if they repo this asset, we are out of business and no body gets paid including the attorney beucase I get dismissed, I lose my house and everything else. The good thing is I would have no phone for any creditor to call and no address for letters to be sent to.

                So I spoke to another attorney, he thought he could get my payments lowered about $250 per month. Well that was 2 weeks ago, my confirmation hearing is next week, my next payment is due next week and the new attorney has filed nothing.

                Last month, 6 days after my trustee payment was made, the trustee paid the attorney over 1k. That money is now gone. If the new attorney doesn't file something soon, the old attorney will get paid the same amount again and I will still owe the new attorney 3k. UGH!!! How do you get these guys off their a**es and do something? They are so busy drumming up new business, that they aren't taking care of the business that they have.

                I realize this was mostly a ranting and I am venting, but the Xanax is no longer working.

                We are in the mess because we did the right thing and adopted our grandkids and I was forced to give up my job to take care of a baby with fetal alcohol exposure and her 28 month old brother. While my low life narcissitic daughter continues to party her life away.

                I realize this was mostly a ranting and I am venting, but the Xanax is no longer working. Someone tell me that it's ok if the attorney stalls and it will all come out with the wash. Somebody tell me to trust my attorney and all will be fine. Or give me some more ideas as to what to do, like should I call the trustee? I don't deal well with unknowns and there are so many of them here....I was told mine was a simple case and it's not turning out to be that way with the threat of losing our only business asset and not enough money to live on, if we get to keep the asset.

                Thanks
                I used to have a life, now I have grandkids.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Granny View Post
                  I realize this was mostly a ranting and I am venting, but the Xanax is no longer working. Someone tell me that it's ok if the attorney stalls and it will all come out with the wash. Somebody tell me to trust my attorney and all will be fine. Or give me some more ideas as to what to do, like should I call the trustee? I don't deal well with unknowns and there are so many of them here....I was told mine was a simple case and it's not turning out to be that way with the threat of losing our only business asset and not enough money to live on, if we get to keep the asset.
                  Granny, I wish that I could say everything will be fine, but with your business involved there's too much going on with your case to say that with certainty. It breaks my heart to know that by trying to do the right thing for your innocent grandkids, it has hurt you so much.

                  Does your trustee know you fired lawyer #1 and replaced him with lawyer #2? Lawyer #2 needs to communicate that to the trustee if, for no other reason, so lawyer #2 gets paid. Even if lawyer #1 does get another payment, the trustee can force lawyer #1 to return it since he's no longer your attorney.

                  Like you, I also hated the being out of control and not getting quick answers, but over time, I realized that our lawyer really does know what's he's doing (for example, he just got Chase Home Mortgage (yes, CHASE!) to drop their objection to our Ch 13 case and admit we weren't a month in arrears when we filed! )

                  It's too soon to tell if your lawyer #2 is going to turn out to be ok, but odds are that everything will sort itself out, Granny. Hang in there, keep venting here any time you want - you aren't alone.
                  I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice nor a statement of the law - only a lawyer can provide those.

                  06/01/06 - Filed Ch 13
                  06/28/06 - 341 Meeting
                  07/18/06 - Confirmation Hearing - not confirmed, 3 objections
                  10/05/06 - Hearing to resolve 2 trustee objections
                  01/24/07 - Judge dismisses mortgage company objection
                  09/27/07 - Confirmed at last!
                  06/10/11 - Trustee confirms all payments made
                  08/10/11 - DISCHARGED !

                  10/02/11 - CASE CLOSED
                  Countdown: 60 months paid, 0 months to go

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Chase Home Mortgage

                    Funny, you had to deal with Chase too. When they filed their claim for my mortgage, paid outside the plan, the amount is 2880.?? over the amount that is the balance owed on the monthly statement, this is in addition to the amount they filed for arrears. They included a statement that identified the arrears, but nothing that identified the increased balance in the secured amount of the debt. That was the first question I sent to the first attorney, who never responded to my question. I called Chase and they told me that they couldn't talk to me, that I have to go to my attorney. Do you have any clue, based on your experience with them on what they include in the secured portion of the debt?

                    Thanks
                    I used to have a life, now I have grandkids.

                    Comment

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