Brain overload, I need advice please!!!!!

[toomuch]

This may be a bit long but I want to include as much info needed for some advice.
Hubby and I are both 52. We have had perfect credit.......but over the past few years....were given too much credit. Bought a house, double payments than our last one. Both have new vehicles. I had a cleaning business and doing very well.
Then I developed serious heart problems and can't work at all.

Our total cc debt is 110,000. 51000. is in hubby's name alone. At least 60,000 plus a little is in my name alone. We are upsidedown on both vehicles.

I have 3 years of income taxes to file (we are owed money) and I am planning on buying a good used car and turn my new one in.

I went to see a lawyer about debt consolidation (she listed that in the yellow pages.) She flat out told me I needed to file Chapter 7, that I'd never live long enough to see my cc paid off.

As for hubby, the means test hasn't been done yet, but she thinks he will do a Chapter 13.

I have been reading this board every spare minute I can get. Btw.....thank God I found this forum. You guys know your stuff!

We live in Georgia. Hubby makes 62.000 a year. We have the one mortgage on our home and are current on payments. I figured our bills without cc debt, just the neccessities and there is not a $100 left over per month for anything.

We are definitely out of control and panic has set in. I know I need to add up all my debts and we should see a debt councelor. But it is Christmas Eve and my heart is so heavy. I didn't realize by hubby filing a Chapter 13 that we would be under a magnifying glass for the term of the payback. If he pays off his cc debt, we will be broke all the time for 5 years. If he files a
13 we will be broke.

Oh, he has a new bike too. It took him 19 years to talk me into letting him have it. He'll lose that if he files. The payments are only 183.00 a month.

I know it sounds like we want to have our cake and eat it too.....I mean, don't most people?

So, I have a few questions. If he did file Chapter 13, and keeps his truck, does he reaffirm that and that would be a separate payment in additon to the monthly payt to the trustee? Some of his friends say their new vehicle is included in the monthly payt.

Is it remotely possible that we could file a chapter 7 together? Is there a link where I can figure the means test? I'm really not too bright when it comes to all of this stuff.....especially the math.

I closed all of my cc accounts and some of hubby's. I read somewhere where we shouldn't have done that.

I know this seems petty, being as I am so overwhelmed, but I scheduled a vacation to Utah for 2 weeks in May. I used skymiles for the flights but will have to pay for lodging, car rental, etc....I booked this months ago. We really need a cc for that trip, just to book car rental, hotels, etc.....but still pay cash. I just don't want any kind of a paper trail at all concerning that trip. We haven't been out of the county we live in in over 2 years. I know......wah.

We can't file until April or May because the lawyer said we need to wait 6 months after using the cc for the last time.

In all fairness, I really thought we would be able to keep up the cc payments. It was just so easy to charge. It's awful. I just can't believe we are in this situation.

Sorry, I know I'm all over the place. I need to know what we should be doing in preparation for this.....maybe some links? I know I need to keep reading. Just hoping some for some kind of hope.....especially today.

Thanks for listening.

[SinkingFast]

Technically, you only NEED to wait 90 days since your last Charge or 70 days since your last Cash Advance. My guess is the attny you talked to has seen enough New Law cases in your area to know 6 months is the minimum to slip thru with no Creditor Objections.

Since you did not mention any one else in the family,............ Just you and Hubby,............. The Median Income for Georgia for 2 is $48,800. The attny was probably point on suggesting you both file and file seperate. You could do a Ch 7 due to lack of income. Hubby would have to do a Ch 13 as he is definitely over the $36,412 Median Income for one person.

When you (your attny) does the Means Test, you don't get to deduct the full amount of your car payments. Most likely. Auto and Home loans have to be annualized forward 60 months from the time you file.

If you're at the beginning of a 5 year loan, you'll get most of what your payments are. If you're at the end of a 5 year loan, you won't get much at all.

Same thing with your house payments. If you're gonna own the house for more than 5 more years, you'll get to deduct the full amount of the payments. If not, the payments will be prorated. Since you said you're in a newer home, that probably won't be an issue.

But, that's probably where some of Hubby's disposable income for the Ch 13 Plan is gonna come from.

I know it sounds like we want to have our cake and eat it too.....I mean, don't most people?

I think everybody starts out there. Can't give up this. Don't wanna let go of that. Believe me when I say,............ Once you start letting go, you'll realize........ Less is more.

[toomuch]

Sinkingfast......thank you SO much for responding on Christmas Eve. I appreciate that.

I am definitely filing Chapter 7. We were wondering which was less of the two evils for hubby.....trying to pay off 51,000 in cc debt through debt consolidation or filing Chapter 13. We just don't know.

I'm just trying to come up with a plan in my mind right now as it is driving me batty. My plan was to turn my car in, do my taxes and buy a used car, put that in a friends name until my br is discharged.

Meanwhile, if hubby files a 13, the attny said he can keep the truck for me and the bike for his transportation.

I need to know if we should file just before the 2 week trip to Utah. I am attending a workshop at Best Friends Animal Sanctuary since I run a feline rescue. Once we file, will they question any debit card transactions to do with the trip?

Also, should he stop his direct deposit now and us have separate checking accounts? I have one of my own now and also a joint checking with hubby.

Should he try not to work any overtime if offered, 2 or 3 months before filing?

Can you answer these questions and also suggest a link on Preparing to file???

I have more questions, but post them separately as to not take advantage of your time for now.

Thank you so much.

[BK'd-Betty]

I think everybody starts out there. Can't give up this. Don't wanna let go of that. Believe me when I say,............ Once you start letting go, you'll realize........ Less is more.

Amen to that! It certainly is an emotional "process". We started out wanting to hold on to everything - in the end we let everything go - for us it was the wisest choice and truly the only way for us to get a frest start.

[BK'd-Betty]

My plan was to turn my car in, do my taxes and buy a used car, put that in a friends name until my br is discharged.

I would strongly urge you to consult your attorney before you do this. These are the exact kinds of transactions the Trustee's are looking for and will ask you specifically if you've transferred any property to "insiders", and will also look to see what you spent your tax refunds on.

Transferring assets on the eve of BK is a major No No!

Don't do anything without the advice of your attorney - moves like that can get your BK dismissed - and you don't want that to happen!

I know your days seem dark today, but this too shall pass. There really is life after BK and once it's all done - you'll realize there is no shame in it and, how in your situation, you've made the best decision for yourself to take care of it.

Good luck.

[silturbo]

hope everything becomes ok , toomuch, i wanted to die when i first posted here, but there are so much great people here to help you go through this process

merry xmas, don't think about this until the new year where i made it my resolution to start over with my financial life.

take care!

[SinkingFast]

If getting off the acct with Hubby just involves taking your name off the acct, that would be OK. If you have to close the acct you may not want to do that. When you file BK, you have to disclose all bank accts closed within 1 year prior to filing.

About the car, you probably don't wanna do what you're considering either. Same thing with the sale of major assets as with bank accts. If you sell your house, cars, expensive pieces of jewelry, anything like that, you're gonna have to disclose it. You'll need to be able to document the sale and show where the money went.

People close to you, family, friends, close business associates, are considered Insiders. As Betty explained, transfers to Insiders within a year of filing BK have to be disclosed too. You sell your car, title a new one in friend's name, you could well be dragging your friend into the middle of your BK. The Trustee could go to the friend and take the car back from them.

You might wanna take a look at the Tactical Bankruptcy Manual:

http://www.bankruptcyforum.com/showthread.php?t=2191

The first link in the thread is an Old Law version. Down at post 12 is a link to the updated version for New Law filers.

As for whether Hubby should file or not,........... Only you can answer that. If you deduct out your debt, will Hubby's debt be a manageable amount that can be paid off within a reasonable period of time.

[toomuch]

Thank you Betty, Silturbo and SinkingFast. I have done nothing all day but read this board and think. I am one of those who can not NOT think about the crisis at hand. To make matters worse, hubby is no help whatsoever. He is coming up with every kind of fraud idea you can imagine. Now he's depressed and it's really bringing me down.

As for him filing, I think he should as we don't have any money left over if we pay all bills on time. Forget about the cc bills. No money for them and they are 3 months behind. No chance of catching up.

I remember the lawyer telling me we weren't the worst case she has seen but in the top ten.....in CC debt.

I had a heart attack when I was 39. Now I have CHF on top of that. I am afraid the stress from all of this is killing me....literally. I can handle my own Chapter 7 and don't mind giving up "stuff." What I can't do is keep giving my hubby a pep talk and trying to make him feel better about losing his bike.

I am still wondering if I should file just before the trip to Utah or wait til we get back.

Also, should he give up any overtime so his income won't reflect it?

Thanks.

[Spartan]

Explain to him that, he is not losing his bike permanently. He is just giving it up temporarily while he gets rid of those crushing CC debts.


Explain to him that, the best and only way out, is to cooperate fully with the law. (Actually, that's what the lawyer said to me. "We are going to cooperate fully with the trustee." ) Don't do anything to jeopardice the chance of getting rid all the crushing debt once and for all.


Try to get him to look further out. People tend to focus too much on what they have to give up. Heck, I have the same problem too. I was reluctant to pay $1500-$1600 in fees. But, we have to look beyond the valley and into the future.


If he cuts back on overtime, may be perhads he too can squeeze by a Ch7? Time to strategize with your lawyer.

"...We live in Georgia. Hubby makes 62.000 a year. We have the one mortgage on our home and are current on payments. I figured our bills without cc debt, just the neccessities and there is not a $100 left over per month for anything...."

I am not that well versed in the mean test, as I personally do not have to be concerned with it. But if you have less than $100 left over, I think that means you are qualified for Ch7.



Good luck and best wishes. Don't over worry yourself. It will work out ok.

[bige1030]

I'd recommend that you do a means test on yourself and your husband.

The means test, summarized, is:
* Under the median: Presumption of abuse does not arise
* Over the median: If, after deducting your allowable monthly expenses from your monthly income, and multiplying by 60, your disposable income for the next 60 months is:
* < $6000: Presumption of abuse does not arise
* > $10,000: Presumption of abuse arises
* between $6000 and $10,000: figure out 25% of your unsecured debt. If your monthly income is less than that, the presumption of abuse does not arise. Otherwise, the presumption of abuse arises.

For more detail, refer to form B22 and the US Trustee's website.

This stuff is complicated, and your attorney ought to perform the calculation to see if you can get into a 7, in my opinion.

[toomuch]

Explain to him that, he is not losing his bike permanently. He is just giving it up temporarily while he gets rid of those crushing CC debts.


Explain to him that, the best and only way out, is to cooperate fully with the law. (Actually, that's what the lawyer said to me. "We are going to cooperate fully with the trustee." ) Don't do anything to jeopardice the chance of getting rid all the crushing debt once and for all.


Try to get him to look further out. People tend to focus too much on what they have to give up. Heck, I have the same problem too. I was reluctant to pay $1500-$1600 in fees. But, we have to look beyond the valley and into the future.


If he cuts back on overtime, may be perhads he too can squeeze by a Ch7? Time to strategize with your lawyer.

"...We live in Georgia. Hubby makes 62.000 a year. We have the one mortgage on our home and are current on payments. I figured our bills without cc debt, just the neccessities and there is not a $100 left over per month for anything...."

I am not that well versed in the mean test, as I personally do not have to be concerned with it. But if you have less than $100 left over, I think that means you are qualified for Ch7.



Good luck and best wishes. Don't over worry yourself. It will work out ok.

Thanks for the pep talk for me Hubby is a negative person in general. He'll be 53 in April, and to him, not having a bike to ride with the boys in his spare time is the worst thing that could happen. He doesn't mind giving up his new bike and trying to save for a used one, but he doesn't want to give it up for 5 years. He also had a 5 way heart bypass 10 years ago. I think we both have (obviously) been living for the moment.
................................

I just want to keep my house. That's all I care about now. I want a dependable car, don't need a new one.

If there are any offices open today, I will be making appts with several and this time he will be going with me.

I really don't know what I would do had I not found this forum. It's very comforting. Thank you.

[jane taylor]

Wishing you all the best, TooMuch! You and your husband have been through so much with health concerns and as you know, financial problems only complicate matters. You WILL get through this. My husband and I were thinking about filing this time last year and it was no fun and on top of that I was really sick. We ended up having to file a Chapter 13 which although not my idea of fun is not the end of the world either.

Always feel free to vent here. Bankruptcy is not a crime and there is no need for you to feel ashamed. (easier said than done, I've certainly felt as if there were a scarlet "B" on my forehead many days!)

Please take care of yourself and don't be afraid to ask for help. It was so hard for me to do that, but there are some really wonderful people in the world.

Lean on us as much as you need. Don't do anything impulsive. Go with your "gut" and ask TONS of questions of your attorney. That's why they get paid the "big bucks."

You will have good days and bad days. Savor the good ones and pray through the not so good ones.

Sorry to ramble, just some of the stuff that's helped me through a challenging year.

Oh, and definitely keep a sense of humor!!!

Peace, blessings, and all good--
jane

[toomuch]

Wishing you all the best, TooMuch! You and your husband have been through so much with health concerns and as you know, financial problems only complicate matters. You WILL get through this. My husband and I were thinking about filing this time last year and it was no fun and on top of that I was really sick. We ended up having to file a Chapter 13 which although not my idea of fun is not the end of the world either.

Always feel free to vent here. Bankruptcy is not a crime and there is no need for you to feel ashamed. (easier said than done, I've certainly felt as if there were a scarlet "B" on my forehead many days!)

Please take care of yourself and don't be afraid to ask for help. It was so hard for me to do that, but there are some really wonderful people in the world.

Lean on us as much as you need. Don't do anything impulsive. Go with your "gut" and ask TONS of questions of your attorney. That's why they get paid the "big bucks."

You will have good days and bad days. Savor the good ones and pray through the not so good ones.

Sorry to ramble, just some of the stuff that's helped me through a challenging year.

Oh, and definitely keep a sense of humor!!!

Peace, blessings, and all good--
jane

Jane, you are so kind. I can tell this is a great bunch of people. You are right, I am ashamed. I should have seen this coming a long time ago and got a grip. You look around and see people who "did things right." They get to reture when they are 58 or so, with their house paid off and money to travel. I'm just so upset with myself.

It's going to be a long haul. My husband is going to complicate things, no matter what he is told and who tells him. He is in denial big time. We're talking about an only child who's parents bailed him out of everything. Not this time though.

It really is hard for me to lean on people. I am the fixer
I will lean now, however humbling it may be. So thank you. Let the experience begin