chapter 7 who can I list as dependent

[JazzyMae]

Hello Everyone,

I have come for additional advice. I did consult with 2 probono lawyers. Each gave me different answers. I am in California, I hope that is ok to list. I am unmarried and want to know if Its ok to list my sons father as a dependent? I did claim him on my taxes as he has our address on his documents, he didn't work all year and i supported him. I make well under the income median and dont need him on the petition but I don't know if the Trustee will see he's on my taxes and not as a dependent and question that.

one lawyer said to list him. The trustee wont care unless he gets a high paying job. The other lawyer said don't list him.

also, I have one more question. My company sends me to work out of town 3 times a year. They give me company checks for mileage and to cover meals. This is not on my W2 or payroll checks. But the trustee will see the checks deposited in my bank account. Should I be listing those checks on the petition? on my current bank statement it shows i deposited the check and withdrew the money.

[justbroke]

Your travel expenses shouldn't be in your W-2 income. It is not income since it's a reimbursement of expense. You would not list reimbursed travel expenses on your petition.

As for strategy on whether to include as a dependent or not, that's a legal question that is going to be attorney-specific. You are getting different answers because they are different strategies. One strategy is to just tell the Trustee and hope they don't dig further. The other strategy is just do not say anything since you don't need to include them.

However, to the extent that your non-spouse contributes to the household you may need to offset expenses.

Whichever attorney you choose should be fine. They work in your specific district and have their strategies.

[JazzyMae]

Just broke,

thank you for your feedback. I am filing by myself. Those were pro bono lawyers who I went to with questions. The trustee is already knows he’s living in my home. I wonder if the trustee says he can’t be counted if he will want to me to reduce my expenses. So stressful.

I was going to do an amendment to add the per diem. That can also be seen in my bank account. So I wonder if the trustee will question it. Thme I thought I should just adjust the dependents if needed..seems like theirs no clear rule for these things.. I guess I should just leave it as is.

One last question: if there is a judgment against me where my wages should be garnished. But I field before the amount could be determined. Would I list that on schedule I as a possible future change?

[justbroke]

I don't know why you didn't just use the Pro Bono clinic and let them file. The nice thing about the attorney is that they handle the communications and discussions with the Trustee. I really wished you used the Pro Bono clinic. Maybe you could go back and have them look over your petition.

You would normally list a judgment either on Schedule F, if it is unsecured, or Schedule D if they have a secured lien. There are ways to remove the secured lien when it impacts an exemption. This part of filing is complex and is why I hope you go back to the Pro Bono clinic and ask them what you should do.

Do not make any amendment until you sit down with those attorneys. Personally, I would not make any amendment until the Trustee complains about something, demands that you update the petition, or you have received advice from the Pro Bono clinic.

[JazzyMae]

Hello Just Broke,

I did have the free pro bono lawyers help me. I followed all of their advice and they reviewed my forms. They recommended I list him as a dependent of the fee waiver and petition. The judge called me in to tell me I couldn’t list him as a dependent on the waiver. But was nice and gave me installments. That’s the point I doubted the pro bono lawyers advice. That’s what made me question taking him off as a dependent; listing per diem.. all of it. They said not to list the the loan my employer gave me. But I really think I should..I tried to get another appointment but they are closed until the 17 due to being booked.

Thank you for all of your advice. So if the trustee sees the per diem deposit checks on my bank statement and that I withdrawal the amount they can just ask me to amend the petition ? I didn’t know that. I’ve been freaking out that he will think I’m hiding things and just dismiss it.

ps my meeting of the creditors is on the 25!

[justbroke]

I can't give you legal advice on this. Reimbursed travel expenses are not income. If the trustee asks on the bank deposits, just say it is travel expense reimbursement. Don't play around with your forms until the court of the Trustee asks questions or they tell you that you must amend the petition. I would go back to the Pro Bono clinic if you are asked to amend the petition so that you understand what to do and not to do.

The reason the Pro Bono attorney likely had you include the non-spouse as a dependent on the application to pay fee in installments... is to show that you cannot afford to pay the fee up front. No harm. No foul. I think that your judge was being a little particular because the instructions say otherwise. The instructions, to pay in installments, reads "Your household may include your unmarried partner and others who live with you and with whom you share income and expenses." But, the judge was really saying is that you don't need to include your unmarried partner because you would be allowed to pay in installments despite having that type of dependent.

I know it's difficult to work with the Pro Bono clinic when you're technically all on your own. As i wrote... don't modify your forms until after the 341 Meeting and there is a demand. But even before you update the forms--after the 341 Meeting--go back to the Pro Bono clinic and see how you should amend the forms.

[JazzyMae]

The judge scared me. She asked why a 51 year old man is my dependent. My other worry is the trustee will want to consider he may work in the future and want to adjust soemthing for that but I will wait for the meeting.

one more question. - will the trustee send me a letter telling me what documents to send him or should I automatically send my tax documents to him?

thank you so much for the peace of mind that I can make amendments after the meeting

[justbroke]

The judge scared me. She asked why a 51 year old man is my dependent. My other worry is the trustee will want to consider he may work in the future and want to adjust soemthing for that but I will wait for the meeting.

A Chapter 7 is a snapshot in history. They look at the day you filed. The future means nothing. I can see why the judge was poking at your situation. In a not-so-direct manner, it reads to me as though the judge was trying to give you some advice; don't support a jobless 51-year-old man.

one more question. - will the trustee send me a letter telling me what documents to send him or should I automatically send my tax documents to him?

No. It is your responsibility to find out what the Trustee needs before the 341 Meeting. Typically they want them at least 7 days before the 341 Meeting. I would (a) contact the trustee's office directly to find this information, and (b) find out if the Trustee has a website where you can get this information.

You are the attorney of record. It is your responsibility to perform all the duties of a bankruptcy attorney.

thank you so much for the peace of mind that I can make amendments after the meeting

You may not even need an amendment. The question will be whether the Trustee thinks you missed something or that you claimed an exemption which doesn't apply to you or the property in question.

Bankruptcy is a hyper-technical process; some even call it administrative law. You must have all your paperwork in order. You had it reviewed by the Pro Bono clinic so the only issues would be with individual items on the paperwork. Hopefully no modification are needed and you sail right through to the discharge.

[JazzyMae]

Just broke! Yes I agree and her facial expression also gave off that vibe! The only thing that I’m worried about is $1000 advance/loan my employer gave me in February that I havent paid off and did not list on the petition ( I forgot).

In regards to deadbeat dependent, the arrangement is temporary. I can’t afford child care and Uber to get my kids to schools until thier deadbeat dad aka my deadbeat dependent works. 🤣your awesome!!!!

[justbroke]

My non-legal thoughts on the payroll advance is that it is a loan by definition. Did you discuss this with your Pro Bono clinic attorneys and how to deal with this? Your case has some intricacies that make me wish you had an attorney. Unfortunately, even though BKForum is a good source, the Internet is no substitute for competent legal advice.

The payroll advance is likely a loan and it is likely that it should have been included on your Schedule F as an unsecured creditor. I would go back to the Pro Bono clinic and ask about this payroll advance.

[JazzyMae]

Yes, I plan to on the first available date of June 17 to meet with the pro bono lawyer. I paid a lawyer $700 but couldn’t afford to pay the balance and he dropped me otherwise I would have loved to use a lawyer. Once again, I truly appreciate all the help you provided. Keep doing this because it sure does provide guidence and peace of mind!