Being bankrupt: when to tell someone, when to not tell someone

[Carmella]

Not to thread-jack this conversation, but Carmella, I've got to hand it to you, you're waaaaay more tolerant of the unvaccinated than I am; having had COVID-19 twice, once in very early 2020 before it was officially on our shores, and once about 3-months after my second of three Pfizer vaccines, my attitude toward the unvaxed is simple, "Get vaccinated or stay home and shut the hell up about your confinement!"

It's very difficult working with these people because they only read "information" that matches their point of view regardless of how reliable the information is. I have even been told "no one can tell me anything different." You cannot talk rational to people with that mindset.

I actually feel as health care providers we should be vaccinated to protect others. This has been wearing me down and I have to distance coworkers even when I have to supervise them. The ones that don't want the vaccine are lax on wearing masks, etc. There is a strong belief that Covid cannot strike the same person twice and now a slight acknowledgement that it can happen on rare occasion to very sick people. In other words not to them.

There is a stay on the CMS mandate and it dissapoints me because I was looking forward to those complying staying and those who were not leaving to restore the work place to having the focus on patient care not on "it's all about me and no one can tell me what to do because I know I am not a threat to anyone." There's super immunity that one will never catch covid because they had contact with positive cases and didn't catch it....yet. They include me in that group because I had been exposed several times (but also used very good infection control techniques) and never caught it. I had the antibody test prior to vaccines were available and working in a nursing home had been tested 2x a week prior to vaccination.

Anyway getting off topic real bad here. If the job market was better for my field (I am not a nurse) I would seriously think about finding a job with less people like this.

BTW from the little I read the stay on the mandate is based on the opinion that The President/Federal Branch of Govt cannot mandate. I read this is not anti vaccine and not saying that health can workers cannot be required to get the vaccine. I also read that is should go through the Congress and then it would be ok (?constitutional). We will see where this goes.

It's been a real sh*tsh*ow to say the least. People can have differing opinions, but they need to stay in their lane and do their job when they are supposed to be working.

[shipo]

Well, shipo here in the not-so-great state of Colorado, an indoor mask mandate for everyone was restored right before Thanksgiving by the health department, not the governor!
Luckily, the county where we live and the local gym we attend are currently not complying, but we shouldn't have to worry anyway since I got J&J the first time, and Pfizer over two weeks ago as my booster shot and my husband endured two harrowing rounds of Moderna in April before he was allowed to switch to Pfizer for his booster. So we are protected and we should be able to display our vaccine cards and opt out of superfluous masking.
I also am fed up with those too ignorant to see the vaccines for what they are: a way out of this century in the making pandemic, not a political statement or cause!

Keep in mind, having had the vaccine, boosted or not, does NOT prevent you from getting COVID, all it does is help your body fight the infection which in turn will (typically) lessen the severity of the case. I strongly recommend indoor masking in public places, regardless of whether you were vaccinated or not, regardless of whether there is a mask requirement in the space or not.

[Barbisi]

I have never argued with any one about masks, because I do believe if you are constantly around people and cannot distance yourself from them, then you should wear a mask, vaccinated or not. Having to work around belligerent people is unfortunate and unfair, @Carmella.
However, in our case we spend no time at anybody's house and at the gym everyone seems to like to distance themselves anyway, so it just isn't a problem there. We have minimal contact with people in grocery stores and shops.
When you are ten feet from the nearest person, having to wear a mask on the EFX seems excessive. And we clean every machine twice and wash our hands frequently, so I feel relatively safe. And I tend to avoid peak hours.
Of course, we wear them wherever we are required to do so, and my husband has to at his company location. The county where we live is very affluent and has always had low infection numbers, so that is probably why they are refusing to enforce this latest round of mandates.
And with the latest variant already here in America, this virus and mandatory indoor masking may well last for many more years to come!

[Carmella]

I want to clarify my statement : BTW from the little I read the stay on the mandate is based on the opinion that The President/Federal Branch of Govt cannot mandate. I read this is not anti vaccine and not saying that health can workers cannot be required to get the vaccine. I also read that is should go through the Congress and then it would be ok (?constitutional).

This is not right. It would not go through Congress either.

shipo the other info I learned is many if not all of our "trusted" vaccines are not 100% many are in the 80% range. The reason we don't have measles, etc is because the vast majority of people are vaccinated against it, but if there was a serious outbreak some of us would catch it. My opinion is we take vaccines for granted and have been spared knowing devastating disease like people did back before vaccines existed.

Anyway time will tell what happens. I have read differing opinions on the OSHA rule as well as the CMS rule. Seems kind of up in the air. My co workers are euphoric at the moment. Then I read there's still a chance the CMS rule could go through by Monday, but I would be very surprised to see it move that fast. I think coworkers assume they have "won." Their words not mine. But how crazy would it be if went through for Monday and then they would be out of a job.

I read CMS asked for a stay on the stay That sounds weird to me, but I am not a legal expert by any means!

I just want the coworkers to do their job and not act like jerks. I have a problem with them acting like jerks and shunning the vaccinated who like me got vaccinated almost a year ago before there was any issue about a mandate and am NOT pushing it on them. They don't need to give us grief because we are not the government and I know darn well the company wouldn't push it if they didn't have to because we are short staffed already they don't want to just fire people! And they blame my boss and the nursing home administrator. Seriously these people do not make the rules!!!

[shipo]

Vaccine mandates are a fact of life, errr, except apparently for the COVID-19 vaccine, an exception which I consider dumb.

True story, my wife and I both got Chicken Pox back in the 1960s, and our son got Chicken Pox in 1995; shortly thereafter a vaccine was developed. Our daughter was barred from entering grade school unless and until she got the Chicken Pox vaccine; she was inoculated and started school on schedule, along with the rest of her grade school (at least those who'd not had the "Pox"). A month or so into 3rd grade her entire vaccinated class got sick with, yup, you guessed it, Chicken Pox. My boss at the time had never had it before and asked me to work from home for a few weeks, so I was the parent who stayed with her, and wouldn't you know it, the vaccine caused the Chicken Pox virus to mutate; a mutation which was virulent to infect me, and I got my second, albeit mild, case.

Does the above mean vaccines shouldn't be mandated? Hell no, it is just one data point within a sea of billions; the fact is, mandating vaccines for workers, students, teams, and any other regular grouping of individuals is both necessary, and as I wrote in my opening, a fact of life.

[Carmella]

shipo that's interesting regarding the Chicken Pox which I also had in the 1960's. My mother was a school nurse and it was very predictable. She would come home after the first case and say on "date" we will have more chicken pox and sure enough on that date there were more.

Now we have the opposite experience. I thought it was around 1995 when my daughter was vaccinated for the Chicken Pox. I was on the bandwagon, a new vaccine for Chicken Pox sign her up ASAP. My doctor had patients who had been in trials and said if you do catch Chicken Pox after the vaccine it's a very mild case.

There were ZERO cases of Chicken Pox in my daughter's school. The school years would be around 2000-2006 when the kids would usually catch it. (estimating K- 6th grade). Thinking of it there were NO Chicken Pox in day care either. Occasionally Lice, no Chicken Pox.

I never met anyone with a case of Chicken Pox that killed them, but it could happen. And guess what we vaccinated for it. I remember being quite miserable with Chicken Pox. My friend had a son a year older than my daughter and he caught them around preschool age and it was terrible he had them every where in his ears and well somewhere no male would want them.

I didn't know the Chicken Pox vaccine was mandated for school, but since my daughter got it as soon as it was on the market she would have been up to date on her vaccination card. Yep, we had vaccination cards for the kiddos

Thinking about this. Many young adults at this time have no idea what it was like to get the Chicken Pox or the difference the vaccine has made for kids at this point in time.

In your case where the vaccinated kids did get Chicken Pox it's interesting because no vaccines are 100% and if there is a large outbreak many vaccinated people will catch which ever disease is around. And there are people who vaccines don't "take" in their blood. I myself got a booster for the Measles in college when there was an outbreak for people my age. All I could think is I don't need the measles I need to finish my clinicals, graduate and get married by the end of this year! Guess what that vaccine did not take nor did the one after it. When I worked for the hospital they titered my blood and vaccinated me twice before it "took."

There's a lot of factors with vaccinations that we just never took time to think about until now.

Now I've gone even further off topic

[BKTexBCS]

I hide nothing. Hiding is likely what got me in this mess in the first place. When I meet someone with financial problems I encourage them to explore BK options and yes, I disclose I did the same myself. I also use my experience as a warning for those I perceive as going down the same path I did prior to BK.

[womanonfire]

I pretty much told anybody; if someone wanted to shame me, I suppose I have plenty of other dirty laundry which is worse.

Me too. I do not give a flying fork anymore although before I filed, I was highly stressed about not being in control. At the end of the day, I see it as a strategic business decision.

[Carmella]

I admire those of you in a position to freely talk about BK. I feel like I will talk more about after March 2023. There's too many "judges" in my life and that's stress I don't need at the moment.

[mh321]

We haven't told anyone at all. We don't see any reason to.