Terminated versus Satisfied in Pacer

[Hmb1992]

Hi there, I haven't seen this particular scenario asked about, so I was hoping to get some insight.
I had my 341 on 12/8/2020, pacer has it listed as satisfied. I took the post-341 debt management course that weekend, got the certificate, it was submitted to my attorney and to the court, and I've also submitted my first two court payments (done on an installment plan approved by the court). The course and the payments are listed as terminated though. These were all done/received in a timely manner, so I'm not sure what this means and what the difference between satisfied and terminated is in this regard.
Has anyone else experienced this?

[shipo]

Your words read like you're entering a Chapter 13; can you confirm?

[Hmb1992]

No, it is a chapter 7. The court payments I'm referring to is the court fee- they allowed me to pay in installments.

[justbroke]

The terms are really for the Clerk's office and may not always match to your expectations.

The bottom line is that these are tickle dates for the Clerk's office and you shouldn't generally look at them. My 341 Meeting stills says awaiting 341 meeting, yet I was discharged years ago.

From my 2010 posting on this forum:

How (the clerk's office uses) the various Deadline/Hearing statuses are confusing. Some things are marked as terminated (to stop a timer, like the 11 USC 521 timer), and some things marked as satisfied. Some things are marked as both.

For example, I have a Section 341 Meetings on my Deadline/Hearings page. One is marked terminated (that was my Chapter 13 341 Meeting). The other 2 are from Chapter 7 with one being marked "satisfied" and "terminated" (as they re-issued the 341 Meeting notice), and the 2nd one is only marked satisfied. Almost everything else is just "terminated".

I don't think you need worry, because if there was an issue, there'd be a corresponding entry on the Docket (History/Documents) for a deficiency or other issue.

[Hmb1992]

Thank you so much, that does make a lot of sense. I didn't really think about the ways they enter that kind of information to stop deadlines/timers. I thought that was somehow informing me I did something wrong. I'm sure if that was the case I'd receive notification from my attorney or the clerk. Thank you for taking the time to answer this for me! Have a great day!

[Tik22687]

I think terminated is good because my case is closed and it says "terminated"

[BxRcvor]

The terms are really for the Clerk's office and may not always match to your expectations.

The bottom line is that these are tickle dates for the Clerk's office and you shouldn't generally look at them. My 341 Meeting stills says awaiting 341 meeting, yet I was discharged years ago.

How does one get access to PACER? Or, is it restricted to Attys or clerical people who file the docs? What would be the best way for me view my own case records, if only to ensure that things were properly filed and marked "terminated/closed/whatever...?"

Thanks.

[shipo]

Go to https://pacer.uscourts.gov and sign up. That said, using the service is a bit labyrinthine and takes a bit of getting used to.

[BxRcvor]

Go to https://pacer.uscourts.gov and sign up. That said, using the service is a bit labyrinthine and takes a bit of getting used to.

Done. I see my case status shows as "Closed" but there are also two dates. One is a "discharge" date and then there is a "termination" date which is a little over 1 year later.

Does the "clock" start (in re: potential creditors, and the rebuilding of your credit/credit score) with the "discharge" date. or the "termination date?"

[shipo]

Well, yes and no, the charges do not actual get charged unless you download a LOT of pages; I never once got charged when I used it. Per the pacer.gov web site, the charges are accrued over the period of a calendar quarter and then billed to you IF you accrue at least $30.00 over the period of said quarter; and at $0.10 per you can effectively download 299 pages and still not get charged.

[justbroke]

Does the "clock" start (in re: potential creditors, and the rebuilding of your credit/credit score) with the "discharge" date. or the "termination date?"

The filing date and the discharge date are the magic dates. How your credit recovers and how creditors treat you will depend on both the fact that you filed bankruptcy and the time since the discharge date. Once the discharge date is recorded on your credit bureaus you should see a bump in your credit score. That's true at least for Chapter 7 debtors, as some Chapter 13 debtors may come out of Chapter 13 with a high-600 score if they did some credit rebuilding during the bankruptcy.

How a specific creditor will treat you is way too fact specific. Some creditors will deny you outright just because there is a bankruptcy on your credit report. Other creditors will go strictly by your credit score. As your score improves, it is likely that the bankruptcy won't matter to many creditors (but not those that outright deny when seeing a BK on the report).

I have seen nothing in the CRRG (the Credit Resource Reporting Guide which standardizes much of how credit "reporting" works), that looks at the close date of a bankruptcy. However, the scoring does look at whether the bankruptcy was discharged. That's not to say that some creditors don't care. For example, you can have a "terminated" date in PACER but your case never received a discharge. Some creditors, especially mortgage creditors, will treat that differently than a discharge. How the credit scoring models deal with dismissed vs discharged is a mystery to me.

[BxRcvor]

The filing date and the discharge date is the magic dates. How your credit recovers and how creditors treat you will depend on both the fact that you filed bankruptcy and the time since the discharge date. Once the discharge date is recorded on your credit bureaus you should see a bump in your credit score. That's true at least for Chapter 7 debtors, as some Chapter 13 debtors may come out of Chapter 13 with a high-600 score if they did some credit rebuilding during the bankruptcy.

How a specific creditor will treat you is way too fact specific. Some creditors will deny you outright just because there is a bankruptcy on your credit report. Other creditors will go strictly by your credit score. As your score improves, the likelihood that the bankruptcy doesn't matter to many creditors (but not those that outright deny when seeing a BK on the report).

I have seen nothing in the CRRG (the Credit Resource Reporting Guide which standardizes much of how credit "reporting" works), that looks at the close date of a bankruptcy. However, the scoring does look at whether the bankruptcy was discharged. That's not to say that some creditors don't care. For example, you can have a "terminated" date in PACER but your case never received a discharge. Some creditors, especially mortgage creditors, will treat that differently than a discharge. How the credit scoring models deal with dismissed vs discharged is a mystery to me.

Thanks so much. I'm definitely "discharged" at this point and, as stated, the case terminated just over 1 year after the discharge date.

I guess I'll have to sum up the courage to get my free annual credit score report (I was dreading that) and see what's what. I'm a little upset that I haven't yet received the written report from Chexsystems. It's been over a week. What takes them so long? Do they have to "review it" for some reason before submitting it to the consumer?

[BxRcvor]

Well, yes and no, the charges do not actual get charged unless you download a LOT of pages; I never once got charged when I used it. Per the pacer.gov web site, the charges are accrued over the period of a calendar quarter and then billed to you IF you accrue at least $30.00 over the period of said quarter; and at $0.10 per you can effectively download 299 pages and still not get charged.

Thank you. I think I had only 4 pages to deal with, and I didn't even download them. I just screen printed them which was all I needed. so .40 at most. And, yes, I understand that if you don't go over $30.00 in a quarter, they wave it, So I should be just fine.

[shipo]

BxRcvor, You can also visit sites like WalletHub.com and CreditKarma.com and get your credit report daily for free.