Bank's legal fees

[SinkingFast]

I hate to tell you dear, Wenderful, but Foreclosure is gonna show anyway.

I was wearing rose colored glasses about that when we sat down with our attny. I was thinking, "Great! We let the house go in BK and we only have one black mark. Not 2."

WRONG!!

The attny said, because the Lender has to Foreclose to get the title in their name to resell the property, or even if we give a voluntary DIL, either way, it will show.

So our Credit Reports will have the double whammy of the BK and the Foreclosure/DIL.

[wenderful]

I believe that is correct, however, I was also told by my attorney that the still have to show it included in the BK and if they don't I can dispute it. If it's included in the BK every creditor that looks at your credit report will know that if it was included in the BK, it has to go to Foreclosure, unless you re-affirm. So even though it will show, I don't think it will be considered as two seperate items.

And at this point, even if it is.........I don't care anymore. To be honest, I don't think I ever want to own another home. As long as I can build a good rental history over the next few years, I should be okay with renting a place to live.

[wenderful]

Hi Jenny,

Are you in Bankruptcy? If not, have you ever been or are you considering it?

[kikyou]

[QUOTE=Jenny]The point of owning a home is to build equity and eventually have a place to live that you own completely. Your housing expenses are locked in, aside for taxes of course which always change. Rent can go up, and in a lot of places it does. You salary may not go up at the same rate. You have no control.
QUOTE]

It doesn't sound like you have ever owned a house. No expenses concerned with a house are locked in. Taxes go up or go down and in some cases can go up to be more than you can afford (especially for retired people on fixed incomes who bought houses 30 years ago). Utilities go up. New expenses you never thought of show up (cable, sattelite, phone, security, gardener, and who knows what else will show up in the next 20 years). Not to mention the roof needs replaced every 20 - 25 years (usually requires a second mortgage), windows may need replacing. Water damage if you have a basement. Then you add adjustable rate mortgages, second mortgages, other large loans with the house as collateral. Equity is never a given. Owning a house is safer than playing the stock market, but just as dangerous. You have large equity then suddenly it's gone. Not just from bad loan decisions. It could be the jobs in your town are now gone, the neighborhood is no longer desireable, etc.
Long post, but I think I have made my point. You only have equity in a house if you sell it and collect. Otherwise, you have a investment that may or may not pay off. If that is all you think a house is, then you better not be sitting on it at all if it has equity. Sell it now. Then use the money for whatever you think you need that "equity" for. The rest of us, I think, think of a house as a home and not "equity". That is why they second mortgage them and make other rash decisions to try to keep them in the face of adversity. Some things are more important than money.

[wenderful]

Jenny, could you please answer my inquiry?
Have you ever filed BK, are you considering it? Have you filed?
I'm just wondering what your purpose here is and what you hope to gleen from this forum.

You know, when we moved into our house, a gardener to cut the grass really wasn't necessary until my husband had a heart attack and couldn't do it anymore. I'm also aging and not strong enough to push a mower.

What should we do, let the grass grow 6 feet tall.

Everyone's situation is different. It's not black and white, there are grey areas and I suspect as you get older, wiser and more mature and actually experience some of life's hardships and disappointments, you might also agree with that statement.

But please do share, what is the status of your BK? Maybe we could offer you some support or advice? As you have offered to us so graciously of yourself

[SinkingFast]

Do I own a house? No. Do I want to one day? Yes.
Taxes can go up and down. I already acknowledged that in my post. Utilities go up everywhere equally. Apartments or rental houses don't get special breaks because they're rentals. If heating oil or gas prices go up, they go up for renters and for owners. There's no difference.

Cable, satellite, phone, security? Those all apply to rentals. Gardeners? A gardener is not required to own a home. The other things you talk about are maintenance. That's a normal cost of owning. Everyone knows that.

Adjustable rate mortgages make no sense in this market with rates going up. People taking them out are doing so because they're buying more house than they can afford while hoping their salaries increase faster than the interest rate. A fixed rate is the best way to go right now.

2nd mortgage? That's not necessary. You don't have to take one out, and you shouldn't if you have money problems. Look what happened to Wenderful. All the payments were completely lost because of such things. To own a home means to not borrow and borrow against the equity.

Yes, jobs are lost. Then you move if you have to, and hopefully you'll either break even or make a bit. But you won't come out ahead if you take the largest mortgage out you possibly can and then borrow out the equity as soon as possible.

I though this stuff was common sense. I guess not. You guys seem really pissed that I think owning a home should be about actually owning a home. Owning a home is supposed to be a good thing. There's a whole other thread here about the "American Dream" being dead because people can't afford a home. It sounds like they can, but they don't want to because they want a whole bunch of other stuff that they use their home equity to pay for.

I don't want to argue with you guys. There are a lot of people in this country who buy a house and don't throw away their equity. I want to be one of those people. I will do my best to do that.

That's all I have to say on it.

We own a home. Still do because it hasn't sold. It's 600 miles from where we live now. Here's some BRASS tacks of the glories of homeownership.

In 14 years, we replaced the roof, the heat pump, added a whole house humidifier and air cleaner, we replaced all the kitchen/bath/laundry floorings, all new carpet thruout except the finished portion of the basement. We had to buy 2 mowers to mow the place. It was a 5 acre "Estate".

You don't expect to replace a 6 year old Heat Pump. You don't expect to replace an 8 year old roof. We had to replace the windows. The wooden ones rotted. Not due to lack of maintenance. They were properly maintained. And, well gee, it woulda been kinda obvious the house needed new floorings considering the old ones were original to the house when it was built 20 years ago.

Let's see,.......... Taxes more than doubled. Homeowner's insurance more than doubled. Water rates went up 50%.

Money,...........

Current Pricing in our Neighborhood: $300K and up.
Current Mortgage Principal Balance: $195K
Current Contingent Offer to Purchase the Property: $215K
Time on market,................ Nearly a year and counting.
Current Housing Market Conditions: Booming, Hot Hot Hot.
We have Location, Location, Location, and great Schools.

We spent $2K/month in house payments, utilities, and mowing to keep that house going on the market while we lived here paying another rent payment.

Renters can pick up and leave at the end of a lease. Renter's can break a lease for a fee when their job goes outa state.

Homeowners can't.

You toss out a comment like that, but if you haven't lived it, it's easy to say. Live it and you completely understand how painful it really is.

[SinkingFast]

If home ownership is so painful, why is there a whole thread complaining about not being able to have it. It can't be both ways. Some say owning a home is terrible and financially devastating. Others want it more than anything and blame everyone and everything for not being able to have it. There are good and bad points to every single decision in life.

I want to at least try owning a home. Not everyone fails at it. Some succeed. Shouldn't people wish success for others rather than failure?

Been there done that THREE times, dear.

THREE houses in THREE different states.

We've had to move for job every time. Got lucky and sold quick the first time. Got lucky and had a Corp buyout back up the second time.

I guess you can see where THIRD time landed us. And it ain't no Charm.

[SinkingFast]

I won't post it here, but I just got a nasty gram from Jenny after trying to be nice to her and ask her if there was anything we could do to help her with her financial or bankruptcy situation. It was a private message because she doesn't want everyone here to know she really does mean to be hurtful and insulting.

I believe at this point, this thread should be locked and perhaps the Trolls here should be banned.

Jenny, what you wrote to me was ugly and you are an evil person.

IGNORE! giggle

Wenderful,..........

Be sure and forward the nasty gram to Minny. She's a mod. She can take care of Lil' Miss Know Nothing.

[kikyou]

Jenny - it's time you faced reality instead of sounding like a commercial from a mortgage company. The difference between you and I and that I know that what you said is propaganda and not reality, and you still have to learn it. Experience is the best teacher. Shutting yourself off from others because you think you already know the answers is not going help you get that experience. A forum is about opening up and sharing experiences, and thereby gaining new experiences. You are sharing nothing about yourself, but placing blame on others. And to think, today is Good Friday too! It is a weekend to forgive others. Please share your experiences. Why are you here? Are you doing a bankruptcy? Or do you have high bills and are trying to learn a way to get through it?

[SinkingFast]

Jenny,................


Why did you PM Wenderful that you don't want to discuss your personal financial situation??

I mean, afterall, this is a BANKRUPTCY Forum. BANKRUPTCY is financial in nature. So if you don't want to discuss finances, why are you here??

Are you trying to prop up your own ego at the expense of other people??

From what I've seen, most, if not all of your comments are critical and hurtful rather than supportive and constructive.

[aa06a47]

Jenny, I don't think there would be many of us here is we were great with our finances. I don't think you would be here either if you followed your own advise. Of course, I have seen alot of folks ask you if you were in BK, you have never answered.

Everybody has a unique situation for the reason they are here. We are all like snowflakes, no 2 alike. So, try not to judge people on this forum, we are all totally different, and at the same time, so totally alike...we are FAMILY.....a broke family, but never the less, family!!!!

[edwards2]

I have to admit after reading all these posts about home ownership that we fall into the love owning a home category. We have owned our present home for almost 15 years and of course it needs maintenance; that is part of it. I look at home ownership more about it being a home - not a house. It is however, easy to sit back and tell us what we should and shouldnt do. Wouldnt life be great if everything was so cut and dry...no emergencies, medical bills, tuition, etc., but life just isnt like that which is why the rest of us mortals are posting on this forum. We all had to make a very painful decision to file BK. It certainly was not our first choice - it was our only choice. We didnt ask for, nor do we appreciate, being judged which is why there is a forum to begin with. We are all here basically for the same reason and seeking the same support. Bottom line is we are not stupid. We know using equity for pay bills, etc., is not the financially responsible thing to do but many times it is the necessary one. I dont know if you intended to be condescending but it certainly came across that way. So unless you are embroiled in the same kind of financial turmoil the rest of us are, you need to move on to some feelgood, I have done everything right forum. That would not be this one; this one is for the "less financially perfect" people.

[13inOR]

Jenny--I dont know if its your intention, but your emails tend to come across with a condescending, sarcastic tone to them. As was mentioned before, sometimes our emails sound different than we intend, but you might want to keep this in mind if indeed your intent is to be helpful.

I know its hard to understand why someone might not have equity, in my area real estate is booming and always has, and having negative equity in a home just doesnt happen here. However, that doesnt mean every area is like that. There are many parts of the country where the real estate market has stagnated, and I dont think you should automatically assume that someones
lack of equity means they have done something wrong, or stupid, or have not been a "successful" homeowner.

For the most part people on this board are like a family, trying to help each other out without judging, so when someone posts messages that seem
insulting, its hard not to take it personally.

[Minnymouth]

PERSONAL ATTACKS to individuals will not be tolerated on this forum.......
We are not in a SHOUTING MATCH regarding how each other thinks about home ownership or what the reasons are that an individual has to file bankruptcy...

""This forum is about support, understanding, dealing with the emotional, financial, physical process of going thru bankruptcy and how it affects our lives.""

Someone WHO HAS NOT OWNED A HOME has "no idea" of the expenses involved in owning a home. They no nothing about initially buying the home (downpayment, escrows, closing cost, ect ) nor maintaining one, repairs, insurances, property taxes, replace of equipment, etc.... over an above the monthly house payment.

Someone WHO DOES OWN THEIR OWN HOME knows the struggles homeowners go thru sometimes just trying to keep their home. Job losses or changes, emergencies (repairs etc) where having to use the equity in the home to take care of the problem makes it even harder to try to own it. Everyone wants their "home paid off in the end" but often that is not possible with the way our financial standards are today. Nothing goes down in price, and these days everything is skyrocketing price wise except our salaries. And its a proven fact people are working more and making less.... So many times we have to dip into our equity by no choice in the matter if we want to keep our homes. Since its OUR HOME many of us will do that. Whether it be right or wrong, we make that decision. Often it is fatal!!! Especially if we end up trying to sell our home in the end...

Some WHO DOES OWN A HOME has a tendency to forget what it's like to HAVE THAT DESIRE TO OWN ONE, but yet find it difficult to actually own one till later on in life, or until they can financially do it....

ALSO "BUTTING HEADS" ON A FORUM serves NO USEFUL PURPOSE TO ANYONE. It offers no support, mental or physically. It offers no suggestions or ideas on how a member can deal with their anxiety, questions, and all the problems that come up in going thru bankruptcy.

If you are a member of this forum most of us would assume you are here searching for information regarding the bankruptcy proceedure and the process, feelings, questions, and just what it is your really up against when you file bankruptcy.

If you are a member of the forum to condem, poke fun at, ridicule, or personally attack others on this forum who are or have filed bankruptcy - THEN THIS IS NOT THE FORUM FOR YOU....

Why a person claims bankruptcy is really no ones business!!! This forum is about HOW TO DEAL WITH IT!! And many of the problems that may come up during bankruptcy. Also, how to get your life back together again after bankruptcy!

PERSONAL ATTACKS ON EACH OTHER - ARGUMENTS ON THE FORUM - WILL NOT BE TOLERATED.

READ MY LIPS - MARK MY WORDS!!!

Conduct yourself and voice you opinon in a polite, objective, respectable manner.

Any other way - "WILL BE DEALT WITH!!"

MINNY

[wenderful]

Thank you Minny for your input.

I apologize for my part in this and will refrain from allowing myself to be drawn in again in the future.