Bank's legal fees

[wenderful]

Okay, I've received Pay Off statements from both my mortgages. If I sell my house tomorrow for the highest possible price I can get, I will end up upside down at closing.

All my lawyers, realtors, bankers, etc are all "if"ing me to death (i.e. well if we get lucky and sell at $x, or by a certain date, if, if, if.

Bottom line. There is NOTHING in it for me to get this house show ready after living in it for 9 years. I won't even break even at closing.

Both mortgages were included in BK, both being reported as "closed - included in BK"

Filed under old laws, no re-affirmation, only made 2-3 payments after filing. Currently 60 days past due.

I just have ONE question before I make my final decision to walk away (I've asked about it before to my attorney and here, so I apologize if this is a repeat).

Can the mortgager's sue me for their legal fees to foreclose, or am I free and clear - i.e. it won't cost me a dime to foreclose other than the credit aftermath?

TIA :-)

[time4cake]

As long as you did not sign a reaffirmation agreement you have no personal responsibility for the debt.

It is really no different than if you surrendered the house in bankruptcy.

I don't know where the "ifs" are coming from, but I would say screw it. Live in the house as long as possible without payments, and walk away.

President Harry Truman commented once that he needed a "one armed economist" because all those he spoke to kept on saying "but on the other hand" at the end of all their sentences. Sounds like you have this feeling about everyone who is giving you advice.

Good Luck

[Minnymouth]

It is my understanding that if you did not sign the reaffirm agreement and just made payments as usual and the debt was discharged in bankruptcy THAT if you decide to walk away from the home later you owe NOTHING ELSE TOWARDS THE HOME OR ANYONE ELSE!!!!

I've heard of mortgage companies trying to charge customers for their legal fees involved in filing for foreclosure, or selling the home or even auctioning it off.

But according the old laws, you are responsible for nothing. The new laws may have a different clause regarding the issue of the legal fees in foreclosure....

You said you filed under the old laws which means, the debt was discharged in bankruptcy, you kept your payments current, the mortgage company allowed you to do this without reaffirming. They did not foreclosure after discharge because they were getting paid......

You have the right to walk away and owe them nothing..... foreclosure expenses are their expenses.......... BECAUSE you did not sign a reaffirm agreement and then decide to turn the house back in....... If you had signed the agreement, THEN you would have to pay all legal fees of foreclosure plus any balance that was owed towards the home after it was sold.....

It wouldn't hurt to call an attorney or legal services and run this by them just for a second opinion.....

Basically by not signing the reaffirm, you were really renting to own till the mortgage was totally paid off in full.
No signed agreement!

Hope this helps......

[wenderful]

Thanks so much both of you for the answers. I did just get off the phone with our first Mortgage company and they told me the same thing, that once I'm discharge, which is only days away, I am free and clear of the mortgage and since I didn't sign a re-affirmation they cannot sue me for legal fees or any deficincy.

My attorney sucks. He could have told me all this but his too flipping busy to get it bother with me.

Since we will be upside and responsible for legal fees if we sell, we've called the realtor and told him to cancel our contract and to come get his sign off our front lawn.

We're walking, and to be honest it such a relief that I can't stop crying. I was sobbing on the phone with the Mortgage company and you would be amazed how nice he was to me about it.

Thanks again, I couldn't have gotten through this BK with ya'll.

I'm not out of the woods yet tho.....tomorrow is the deadline for objections.

[wenderful]

Jenny,

Aren't you the same person that called me greedy because I re-financed my house to save my business?

Why is it that every time you communicate with me you are so insulting?

The reason there is no equity falls into the NONYA category!

[wenderful]

You know, after the day I had today, don't even reply, I just put you on ignore because you contribute nothing to this board, you never discuss your own financial situation you only insult others abouth theirs. So you go IGNORE.

[Minnymouth]

Calm down,

Some members don't understand to what extremes people will go to save their business ventures and their homes....

The fact that you took a 2nd mortgage is not unusual. Many people hopefully think that will solve the situation and it doesn't. Often it just adds too it.

Many people use the equity in their homes to buy autos, take trips, send kids to college...... that's how you end up with no equity in your home.

I agree that its best to surrender the home, let them foreclose and sell. For you to sell outright yourself will cause you undo expense and solve nothing.

By surrendering the home you walk away and the debt is discharged....

Its not easy to give up your home. I had mine seized, auctioned, and I was fortunate enough to purchase it back from the buyer....... Talk about a "wild ride for months"....... I DO KNOW HOW YOU FEEL TODAY.......
and its not a good feeling......

Most have a simple cut and dry bankruptcy (which mine was supposed to be) and some go thru PURE HELL, LIKE I AM STILL DOING and you are fixing to do!!!

I hate to hear that you have to give up your home to solve the financial problems you have encountered. Would have be nice if you could have kept your home!

I pull in my driveway every nite and thank God that I was able to purchase mine back from the buyer....... Bless them!!! They made a "nice instant profit", but I still have my home and never had to move out of it...

So stay calm, be patient, just take one day at a time, keep an eye on your attorney, watch what he is doing, ask questions, and talk to us about your feelings - cause we sure understand - at least most of us do.

If the stress gets too much, go see your family doctor, he can help if you explain the situation to him. Mine sure did, and is still keeping an eye on me and my medical conditions that were brought on by stress. Asthama went wild, panic attacks, etc.....

So hang in there and take it as it comes. We're here with you!

Minny

[Minnymouth]

My Trustee threatened to stop the auction, throw me outta the house, and then continue his auction later because he didn't like my attitude.

DUH...... the sorry little bastard.............. he's on my list too.....cause he sure stepped over the boundaries of his authority... I've already checked!
Hope he has his pocketbook ready too!!!

[wenderful]

Actually Jenny, after Minny's post, I calmed down & took you off ignore. I will take you at your word that you were not trying to be insulting. We lose a lot in email and forums since you can't read body language and expressions.

So, I'll accept my responsibility in what I said to you was perhaps harsh or inappropriate.

Considering this is the second time we've butt heads, I would suggest that perhaps you think about what you write and the tone that you take before you post it, because I've read many of your posts and a lot of them borderline criticism.

But hey -- maybe it just me! Something for us both to think about.

[aa06a47]

How is it possible to own a house for nine years and not have any equity? The housing market has been booming for the last several years, and 9 years is either more than half-way through a 15 year mortgage or nearly a third of the way through a 30 year mortgage.

I've owned mine for 13 years, and not much equity. I took out a 2nd mortgage a year or so ago, they really weren't interested in a good appraisal, just pulled it off the internet and gave me way more money than they should have.

[wenderful]

yep, same here! inflated appraisals which we were grateful for at the time cuz we needed the money, but in reality we re-fi'd ourselves right out of our house.

[SinkingFast]

How is it possible to own a house for nine years and not have any equity? The housing market has been booming for the last several years, and 9 years is either more than half-way through a 15 year mortgage or nearly a third of the way through a 30 year mortgage.

We're in the "Wenderful Club" as well.

After owning a house for 13+ years, we have no equity.

We refi'ed several years ago. The mortgage is supposed to be 80% of the value of the house. If that's true, our house shoulda easily sold for about $245K-$250K. We have a contingent offer of $215K and no other takers.

Our neighborhood is $300K and up to get into. House down the street from us sold last summer for $290K. A house around the circle from us just sold for $350K. The market is Hot Hot Hot. Yet there sits our house. Collecting dust. All new carpet. All new tile. All new windows. Fresh updated paint. Realtors can't figure why it hasn't sold.

Houses are only worth what a willing buyer will pay on any given day. Realtors and appraisors can attempt to read the tea leaves of the future based on past selling trends, but that does not apply to any give house on any given day with any willing buyer.

The market where we're living right now. My Hubby's company is growing like crazy. Builders are building new houses like crazy.

Hubby told of a co-worker who bought a house when they first moved here. They've decided to sell and upgrade. Called the Realtors in for the CMA's. General consensus was the sellers should ask $125K. The guy told Hubby, $125K is what they paid when they bought 3 or 4 years ago when they moved here. When you take out Realtor fees, doc fees, and such, they come out $10K in the hole on the price of the house.

Individual housing price sales aren't a nationwide trend. It's very area specific.

[SinkingFast]

To the question of Legal Fee's, Wenderful!

Our attny said we have a couple different ways we can approach this.

We can just go ahead and give the Lender a DIL and let them move forward.

Or, we can wait until the Lender get's all the way thru the Foreclosure process. Either way, it makes no difference to us, he said. We're including the house in BK, so we're not responsibile for any deficit either way, he said. Since Foreclosure will involve legal fees on the part of the Lender, I'd say we won't be responsible for those as well.

[wenderful]

Hi Sinking Fast,
Yes, I got that confirmed yesterday by some people here, as well as my attorney and the bank.

The bank won't do a DIL because there is a second mortgage, they want a clear title do that. They said they'd accept a short sale, but in the end there is NOTHING in it for me to get his house ready, you know, paint, shampoo carpets, get rid of 9 years of grime.

So, for us, what's the point. We work like dogs to get the house show ready so everyone else gets paid, or we walk away scott free? Seems like an easy decision to me.

Both mortgages are already being reported as "closed - included in BK" and from what I understand, they cannot change that to read Foreclosed and if they do I can dispute it.

So as far as I can see, the damage is already done to the credit report, there is no money in it for me -- why should i get the house show ready -- let NovaStar do it -- they're going to screw HSBC out of the second Mortgage anyway.

When I got my payoff statment, they had already hit me with $8k in penalties and interest for being 2 mos past due, charged me $39 to FAX the Payoff statment to my TOLL-FREE fax number and slammed me for $1050 in attorney's fees to file the Motion to Lift the Auto Stay.

Can you imagine what their legal fees are going to be by the time I went to closing, if I could sell the house???

Not me, I'm walking -- moving in 6 days, not looking back. To hell with them. I tried to work something out, but the botttom line, they are going to get my equity one way or another -- so let them clean the house, keep the grass cut, etc.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it! LOL

[Minnymouth]

Jenny,
Everybody that goes thru bankruptcy has the shattered nerve syndrome...... and WE ALL get on the defensive during this process....

I would have asked the same question had I not known about the business and using the equity in the home to try to survive.

I used the equity in my home to do the same thing and it backfired on me...

I'm know some of the things I've said on the forum to people was hard to swallow and some have told me soooo also.....

I've even been told to pretty much keep my opinion to myself.... duh..... but I try to help anyways.

I look at things in black and white - not thru rose-colored glasses and many do not want to hear it when they are already stressed out....


My thoughts,