Is it possible the bank will never foreclose?

[trying_to_fix]

I'm running into a similar situation as many others over here. I have a rental home that I included in my Chapter 7 that was discharged in March 2009. I stopped making mortgage payments on the property on 6/2008.

I figured it would take a while to complete the foreclosure process but this is outrageous. The property was about to go to auction in Oct 2009 then all of a sudden I see it was pulled off the market and I can't get any information as to what is happening with it. The mortgage is held with Chase and unfortunately I have to pay nearly $150 in monthly HOA fees otherwise the community has already threatened to submit a judgment against me. Now just this week I've received notice that the grass is overgrown. I have no idea who has been maintaining it all this time because the home is 500 miles away from my current location. But it looks as if I'm going to have to start paying for lawn service now as well.

In any case this is extremely frustrating because although I have a primary home and mortgage I really just want to get rid of this albatross hanging around my neck. So every year I waste over $2000 in HOA fees that provide me with no benefit whatsoever. Great system whoever lobbied for the ability to have HOA fees still be responsible by the person on the title after a BK...

[Clabbergirl]

20 years????? Seriously? WOW.

[debee]

As far as insurance goes, indicating "surrender" on the SOI doesn't impact issues of public safety/liability. If a person indicates they will "surrender" the Hummer and then after their 341 they run the trustee over in the parking lot, they're still liable. They're happier, but still liable.

Same with their house. If the trees along the driveway are diseased and weak and the neighbor points it out and the owner doesn't do anything and those trees fall over and crush the neighbor's bankruptcy trustee, the owner will still be liable. It won't matter if he had previously declared bankruptcy on his dentist bill or mortgage loan. The liability issue is completely separate.

If the house in the example mentioned above was vacant, same thing.
If the house in the example mentioned above was vacant and the owner was behind on payments, same thing.

Once the foreclosure process actually starts then I think it gets sticky. There are REO liability policies being sold to lenders now for properties that are already REO (bank-owned) and also for properties that are merely in process. They're marketing them as components of lender-placed policies.

If the lender has an REO policy in place (and even if they haven't changed locks, which I think gets the owner off the hook regardless), that's who I'd go after if someone squished my trustee. Easier to get a check without having to step into a courtroom, which is how most insurance claims are settled. Anyway, I agree with others that the risk is small and decreases the more involved the bank becomes.

But however small, there's still some risk that someone could file a suit against the owner. Insurance claims rise dramatically against vacant properties. That's why it costs more to insure them and why some homeowners can't get insurance on them at all. If there were no personal liability cases filed against the owners of vacant properties, liability insurance on vacant properties would be easy to get and cheap. Like accidental death insurance. Only a 2% chance of that, and you can get it anywhere for peanuts.

Anyway if an uninsured homeowner gets sued, even if they think they will win, they'll have to hire an attorney and pay for their defense. And if they lose, they can't bk the debt. For some people it's worthwhile to pay the insurance premium upfront so they don't have to worry about what happens on the other end. That's cool too.

eta: I just read LITR's earlier post about being liable even without knowing and that reminded me of a case I read where a water leak in an empty condo caused damage to the adjacent condo & the owner of the empty condo was sued. She said she didn't know about the leak. She lost the case. I'm thinking it was over 200K in damages. No idea if she was ever in a bk, but for her sake, I hope not.

[discouraged]

I fell during our last huge snowstorm and hurt my back (just needed pt though, it's much better) because the new owners of the corner house didn't realize they had to shovel to the street. When I filed for bk I asked the lawyer, the discussion came up about lawsuits and we discussed it. He said because there were no witnesses, nothing I could do. I had reported this to the city, who instructed the owners to shovel, but how would a person 'prove' this happened when it did, unless it was observed by a by-stander. Regardless, I am not leaving my house until it forecloses and they - the bank- is paying the insurance.

I quit paying June 2010 and except for a NOD in September, have heard nothing. I plan on staying until they foreclose, but I do have the luxury of being by myself and thus have no family to worry about. I'm just going to take advantage of the free rent as long as I can. Besides which, after being here for 8 years, I have a ton of stuff to get rid of and hope to sell as much as I can and get back to basics. And yes, tobee, I WILL wait to sell it until my case closes, LOL.

[debee]

I fell during our last huge snowstorm and hurt my back (just needed pt though, it's much better) because the new owners of the corner house didn't realize they had to shovel to the street. When I filed for bk I asked the lawyer, the discussion came up about lawsuits and we discussed it. He said because there were no witnesses, nothing I could do.

He was wrong about needing a witness to the actual fall. Your injuries/medical records bear witness. Your physiotherapist bears witness. Photographs and/or neighbor testimonies about the icy conditions bear witness. Friend or ambulance who drove you to the hospital bears witness. Call to the City bears witness.

And then you just find an ambulance chaser willing to take the case. I helped an elder neighbor find a lawyer to represent him when he & his dog were bit by an escaped neighborhood dog. No witnesses to the actual biting. The chomper's homeowner's insurance settled for just over 5K. The lawyer took his 30% share and that left my old neighbor with enough for his $750 vet bill and a couple thousand extra.

Sorry about your back too.

[discouraged]

Falling in MN during our snow season is so common that I didn't even see the Dr for a couple weeks later. Then, because I saw a PA instead of a real Dr, did not start therapy until this month, after I kept complaining of pain. The only thing I have is the city's complaint that the resident needed to shovel the sidewalk.

I'm glad I did not have the info to sue though. Through this I found out I have arthritis in my back (old age stinks - don't let them kid you) and, with the exercises I learned through therapy I can control it. Could have gone through life with low baclk pain forever and no clue as to what to do. The MRI showed everything so I now have ways to control it. Sometimes we go through bad to get to good.

[tobee43]

Falling in MN during our snow season is so common that I didn't even see the Dr for a couple weeks later. Then, because I saw a PA instead of a real Dr, did not start therapy until this month, after I kept complaining of pain. The only thing I have is the city's complaint that the resident needed to shovel the sidewalk.

I'm glad I did not have the info to sue though. Through this I found out I have arthritis in my back (old age stinks - don't let them kid you) and, with the exercises I learned through therapy I can control it. Could have gone through life with low baclk pain forever and no clue as to what to do. The MRI showed everything so I now have ways to control it. Sometimes we go through bad to get to good.

amen to that girlfriend!!

you have had your share that's all i can say...{{{{{{{{{{{D}}}}}}}}}}}}}

[debee]

Agree with tobee. Amen to that. Getting old isn't for sissies. Glad you skipped the stress of a suit and found a cure for your lower back pain.

[tobee43]

BELLS.....................DRUM ROLE.........................ok deb...this is TWO times we agreed ROFL!!!!!!!!! am I MELLOWING out??????...LOL!!!!!

[debee]

LOL. That's funny.

[sar2547]

Knitty, I also had a loan with Beneficial and tried every which way to get a mod. No luck at all. Beneficial/HFC is the absolute worst to deal with. Stopped making paymnets in Dec. 09 house went for auction in Jan. 2011. During that time we had it up for short sale. It sold 3 times and fell out 3 times. I to am in California. I would say you have about a year until it auctions. Stay as long as you can I say.....

[sar2547]

Oh and btw, it auctioned for $70,000 less than an offer that Beneficial turned down on the short sale. Go figure?????

[discouraged]

Isn't that the way? BOA is so confusing. Right before the 341 they sent 2 fed ex envelopes for mtg modification and I just ignored them. Tried so hard to work with them for over a year before that and they kept 'losing' the paperwork and I had to send things over and over again. Then when they got the notice of my bk, they sent the 2 letters for a mod and what they asked for was the information I had sent over and over again.

So - they lose. They are stuck with 78,000 on a house that is now valued at 65,000 - and I'm sure that is not real as it has been some time and things are going down, not up.

Chase, the 2nd mortgage, was even more antagonistic than they were, really threatening - and they will only lose 25,000. Crazy, crazy, but I guess I understand - at least BOA may get something out of it.

[Ifonly]

Last payment made in 2/09 and CH13 filed with the surrender in May of 2009. I still own that vacant house and I just got my letter from the HOA threatening to sue. I have no idea how that will play out and my attorney SWORE that the debit went with the house. I insisted from information on this forum that he name the HOA as a debtor and include at least the 2009 dues (they bill annual). So, at a bare minimum, I should be protected on those. But, interestingly enough, the trustee denied the HOA claim of the 2009 dues and marked it "surrender" (I'm in PA, if that makes a difference). But they sold to a new managing agent and now they want even the debt that was included - but my attorney just called and said he's filing an adversary proceeding since I had already emailed them and told them that any further debt collection activity was a violation of the automatic stay. Fingers crossed!

[tiredmimi]

I hope someone can help me. We live in middle tennessee, and filed for 13 last year in April 2010. I lost my job in November, which was a significant part of our household income, now drawing unemployment previous salary $52,000 yearly. We then contacted our lawyer and refiled for chapter 7. No payments have been made on our mortgage since November 2010 when we stopped making payments to the 13 trustee. We would like to keep our house, so we did not include it in our chapter 7, we contacted GMAC to try to get help through the hamp program and sent in all the paperwork in April 2011. Our chapter 7 was discharged on June 23rd, 2011 and GMAC went to court to get our mortgage released from the bankruptcy for foreclosure proceedings. We still have not heard anything from the hamp paperwork we sent in, and we received a letter today from GMAC attorney's stating we had 30 days to dispute this debt or they would foreclose. I don't know what to do at this point, I will call GMAC and check on our paperwork. Does anyone know how long it takes to foreclose once you get that letter, we are really in limbo. Any help appreciated!