Radian PMI, forced on our IIB loan?

[Sweetpea3829]

Where to begin? Our mortgage was IIB in a BK 7 in 2007. We stayed and paid up until August of 2010. After a failed modification attempt, we stopped paying. Shortly after, we started getting phone calls from a company identifying themselves as Radian PMI and indicating that they held the PMI for our mortgage.

Just one problem...we never had PMI for that loan. I KNOW we didn't have PMI because we had specifically refinanced that loan in 2005 to be rid of the PMI. When we refinanced, the loan changed hands from Flagstar Bank to Citimortgage. I haven't paid PMI since the refinance was complete.

When Radian first started calling, I explained to them that we didn't have PMI and even called Citimortgage to verify...double checked my statements, etc.

The loan was then sold to LBPS for servicing. I think I heard from Radian one final time last fall and that was that.

Well today I got a phone call from a Radian representative, insisting that we most certainly DID have PMI and that I must be reading the bill incorrectly. She stated that the lender/servicer sometimes pays for it and puts it on the loan automatically and that I must be misreading my statement. Um...ok.

She went on to explain that, because we were in default, Radian had an interest in helping us get the loan modified (which would make sense if there actually WAS PMI because they'd be paying for the defaulted loan). She said that they can help by helping us gather all of the documentation that we need and ensuring that LBPS has everything so that LBPS can't come back six months from now and say we didn't send in such and such form and deny the mod.

She offered to send out a modification package for me to fill out and send back with required documentation.

A Google search of Radian brings back a valid (from what I can tell) PMI company. But I still stand by the statement that we DON'T HAVE PMI! And the lender says we don't have it either.

Any thoughts on this? Anybody experienced this?

I'm not about to send personal documents to a company I know nothing about, and have no business relationship with.

[last2cents]

OK.....my first thought here is that your loan documents might be criss crossed with someone elses (possibly occuring during the transfer of servicing to LBPS)...however, you say that you actually got a call before that happenend....SOOOOOOO

She stated that the lender/servicer sometimes pays for it and puts it on the loan automatically and that I must be misreading my statement.

Is this possible? Yes it is. In a LPMI situation, you normally pay a higher interest rate to cover the costs of the PMI premium, and the lender pays it directly to the PMI company. You get the benefit of the higher interest tax deduction.

What was the LTV when you refinanced the home?

When you speak to Radian again (and yes, they are a legit company) - ask them to send you a copy of the insurance certificate for your loan. This certificate should have identifying loan data on it, and the name of the insured party (whether that be Citimortgage or the new servicer / owner).

If Citimortgage is telling you that you didn't have PMI, I'm wondering if LBPS put it on there.

[Sweetpea3829]

I don't recall the exact LTV when we refinanced, but I do clearly remember that it was such that we didn't need PMI. When we had purchased the home originally, we had put 3% down and therefore needed PMI. The housing market was incredible in those days and the house, within a year and a half of purchase, increased in value enough that we were able to refinance the loan at less than 80% of the appraised value (AND still cash out some equity).

Our interest rate was competitive for the rates of that time...just over 6%, so it wasn't any higher as you suggested might be the case.

Today's call kind of came as a surprise...I thought we had resolved with Radian that we did not, indeed, have PMI...lol. Next time they call, I will ask them for a copy of the insurance certificate.

I don't think LBPS could legally put it on there in the transfer, could they? Wouldn't they have to disclose that they were doing so?

Weird...but I've definitely received calls from Radian while Citi was servicing the loan and now while LBPS is servicing it.

[last2cents]

Well, nowadays LPMI has to be disclosed on the Good Faith Estimate and the HUD 1 statement - but back in '05 the rules were different. If you can dig out the the original HUD 1 from the refi closing, if Citibank did it, then the upfront premium MAY be there somewhere. If you've got a copy of your original commitment letter from Citibank, there should have been a disclosure in that document (based on some mortgagee letters from 2003) that talked about it.

Not sure about whether or not LBPS could legally have done it - there are so many "illegal" things going on in the mortgage world right now its a bit hard to keep up with.