"Sorry, you never mailed back your mod agreement"

[Tom_Mi]

Ok, I'm freaking out here. I have a plan, but looking for some advice.

Per Mich Law, I had a mediation mtg in July with servicer and their lawyer. They proposed a great mod that puts my payment back to what it was before they raised it.
We were grateful and said we'd look for their 'agreement documents'.

We got a packet for financials and sent it. (no mod docs sent yet)

Called regularly, sent incremental updates as requested. (no mods docs sent yet)

Finally, they said "resend everything!" ..so I did. (no mod docs sent yet)


They've scheduled a sheriffs sale, so I called the law firm to ask why. They said I never sent back the mod agreement from July, and my account was kicked out of the mediation process. I assure you I never received one. I said "please check your records..I never signed for one". They said they don't send it registered.

1.) Why would they tell me all this time to resend docs and never once tell me I failed to send their mod documents back? I think it was never sent.

2.)So I called a local law office that I know deals with this stuff. They say this ALWAYS happens and servicers never send the mod agreement. They said they get this story twice a day.

The lawyer says she's only seen mods work when you drag the companies into court and force them to go with the mod. Her flat rate is 2,800 to file the suit. They say they've done this 8 to 10 times already with success. Since 2,800 is only 2 months mortgage payment, I'm thinking of moving forward with this plan...it's roughly the same amount I'd have paid anyhow and gives me a shot at having this mod happen.

Thoughts?

-t

[cantbreathe]

Tom,

I hope someone else will chime in here for you soon. DH and I have been dancing with our Loan Servicer for almost a year now. I say go with your gut. What exactly are they going to do for you for their fee?

CB

[Tom_Mi]

They said that with a lawsuit, the lenders will cave and go with the mod. The fee isn't a guarantee we'll win but they've done this more than once.

I don't see what I have to lose. A sheriff sale makes me a renter for 2yrs, while the mod lets me park here and move on my terms.

[cantbreathe]

Do you have any documentation from them as to their offer?

[Tom_Mi]

Do you have any documentation from them as to their offer?

Only what I handwrote during the conf call including people on both sides. I don't think they'll deny the call or the offer, since the state governs it. I think they're just trying to hose me by claimiing they sent the docs. (but I can't understand why they'd have strung me along for so long)

[cantbreathe]

Tom_Mi

I may be wrong here, but reading through your posts, you seem to know what you are talking about with properties. I say go for it! If that what your gut is telling you to do? You are knowledgeable forthwith about the pros and cons......you trust the attorney..What have you got to lose? Maybe getting their hand slapped pretty hard by an aggressive lawsuit will wake them up to the reality that stringing homeowners along isn't the thing to do. I would send off a little email to Attorney General Cox as well!

Good Luck My Friend and I will be watching for an update!

Best Wishes
CB

[Pandora]

They said that with a lawsuit, the lenders will cave and go with the mod. The fee isn't a guarantee we'll win but they've done this more than once.

I don't see what I have to lose. A sheriff sale makes me a renter for 2yrs, while the mod lets me park here and move on my terms.

You cannot make a lender mod your loan - lawsuit or otherwise. The terms you agreed to when you signed your note are the terms they must stick by - I dont know why your lawyer is telling you otherwise. If this were the norm, then people who file BK would be able to cram down the value of their 1st mortgage, and they cannot. What reasoning is your lawyer using in claiming they can "force a mod"? Given your house was already foreclosed upon and you didnt reaffirm it - there's even less reason for the lender to mod anything.

Unfortunately you will have to prove you never received anything - the burden of proof is on you, not the lender I'm afraid. Too many lenders string people along saying "just make partial payments" or "its in the mail" - and it isnt. Never trust anything your lender says regarding a mod unless they can provide you with a tracking number. Most mod documents are sent via Certified or Sig. confirmation (both trial documents and perm. docs) - its the actual signed COPY of the perm loan mod document that doesnt get sent with any sort of tracking but just through regular USPS system in most instances.

[Tom_Mi]

Just got a big punch in the gut.
They've said "I never returned the docs", but now they agree they never sent them. Why is there no legal recourse for this?



My post-call note on Jul7:

Hi BANK_MEDIATOR,
Thanks again for your willingness to help us with a great workout option last Monday. I'm looking forward to receiving the required docs in a couple weeks. (or as soon as they're available).

I'm wondering if you could forward this message to <A LADY> in your office.
She has requested a couple items be faxed to her. I'm going to send it asap, but was wondering if you can forward this message ahead of my fax.

2009 Taxes: My accountant has been waiting for some 1099's from last year. She is preparing my taxes now, and I will have a signed copy for <A LADY> by Monday. (very sorry for the delay)

Copies of any lease agreements: I no longer own any rental properties, so there are no lease agreements to be provided.
Thanks again, I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Regards,
TOM_MI
************************************************** *******

Just now the guy sends me this: (we did talk about reaffirmation and he said he'd let me know)
Mr. K, I believe there to be a bit of misunderstanding – possible on both ends.

During mediation you questioned the reaffirmation of debt should you accept the loan modification: in doing a loan modification we require that you reaffirm the debt. I only ask because if memory serves me correctly you were either unwilling or apprehensive should this be a requirement.
Would you like to move forward with the loan modification and reaffirmation of debt?

Please advise ASAP.
Thank you,

************************************************** **********
So, they said I was denied long ago because I never returned their docs, but didn't tell me. Now they say the never sent me any docs, but would I like to reaffirm? (17 days before the Sherriff Sale).
My response is here:


Hello,
I'm fairly confident <FORECLOSURE FIRM> can provide a transcript of our call.
You stated that typically reaffirmation is 'not' required for reworks, and that I would hear back from you if there was a problem.
I was to receive 'sample' documents immediately, with the originals to sign in the next 'couple weeks'.

The foreclosing law firm has said that I've been denied for refusing to return documents. <A LADY> has told me today that I've been denied for never having sent back any documents. I think we all can agree that those documents were never sent to ME...and that nobody has told me during this entire process that there was a problem.

Tomorrow morning I have an appointment with my attorney. I (or they) will give you my opinion at that time.

Regards,
Tom_MI





************************************************** **********
His Response was simple: (you can't intimidate a bank)

I look forward to your response.
Thank you,

<MORTGAGE GUY>

[Pandora]

there is no legal recourse because if HAMP is what you're trying to do - HAMP was never made "law" but is a guideline for lenders to follow should they choose to participate. Its strictly voluntary unless your loan is owned by Fannie or Freddie, then it is mandatory. If an in-house mod is what you're doing, then that too is not mandatory, its up to the lender if they want to mod or not.

Sorry you're having to find out this way. So many people have been strung along regarding modifications (HAMP or otherwise) and most do not get them even if they do qualify under guidelines, which there should be recourse for the homeowner, but there isnt - because again, it was never made into a law for lenders to follow. We were one of the lucky ones as we got a perm HAMP mod, but it was hell to get it. It seems that so many people arent getting approved any longer for any type of mod and its insane.

[cantbreathe]

Thank You , Pandora. ( I actually have a grand daughter named "Pandora")


It just seems like there is something that can be done to these lenders who string along home owners for months and sometimes YEARS!!!! We ourselves have given up the mod payment idea, at one time desperately hopeful , back and forth paperwork nightmare .....and are surrendering our home in bk. Our lender called us before we were a block away from leaving our 341 mtg asking us to "fax them ALL of our BK schedules to move forward with their mod" WHAT???? I mean REALLY???

Tom_Mi, I would still write a letter to Atty General Cox. If nothing else, it may make you feel better to take some kind of "pen" action. Just a thought.

Keep us informed. Will you?

CB

[kriptik]

Well put Pandora! You see what I see. Banks aren't your friends. They only have to be half right to stick it to you!

[Tom_Mi]

Thanks all. I think they would do the mod, they're just making me reaffirm to get it..which I can't do on a place this underwater.

What makes me angry is that the ultimatum comes 16 days prior to a sheriff sale, so I won't have time to get a bridge loan with someone else. (I'd qualify).

[dasmom]

there is no legal recourse because if HAMP is what you're trying to do - HAMP was never made "law" but is a guideline for lenders to follow should they choose to participate. Its strictly voluntary unless your loan is owned by Fannie or Freddie, then it is mandatory. If an in-house mod is what you're doing, then that too is not mandatory, its up to the lender if they want to mod or not.

Sorry you're having to find out this way. So many people have been strung along regarding modifications (HAMP or otherwise) and most do not get them even if they do qualify under guidelines, which there should be recourse for the homeowner, but there isnt - because again, it was never made into a law for lenders to follow. We were one of the lucky ones as we got a perm HAMP mod, but it was hell to get it. It seems that so many people arent getting approved any longer for any type of mod and its insane.

I can share that I have been involved in mediation through my state's program for over a year. There have been so many continuances and extensions that we have exceeded the time limit in our state's mediation law and there is no end in sight. The banks can keep doing this forever - they will be passing on their attorney's fees to the homeowner.

Aside from the mediation I also hired an attorney to fight the foreclosure in an effort to improve chances for a modification. The only thing I gained was huge bill for legal fees - almost $10,000!

So now I have an incompetent attorney pursuing me for fees. Incompetence isn't because I didn't get the modification, but due to malpractice..... (a story for another time)

My take is that there are many folks who are trying to get their fingers on any part of the mortgage meltdown bonanza ($$$). That includes attorneys as well. They can be persuasive and prey on our emotions related to wanting to save our homes.

I can't advise you how to approach your situation, but be careful!

dasmom

[Tom_Mi]

Thought I'd post an update....\
First, Michigan is a foreclosure by advertisement state.
Michigan's new law gives you a 90-day stay at NOD and guarenteed talk/mod offer with bank. If I prove I can afford a mod and they don't offer one, they must foreclose Judicially. (but the law firms know 1000 tricks to avoid the costly judicial option).

So a guy at the bank emailed me (above) admitting they never sent an offer. This should be a problem for them because the law firm had proudly told me they could foreclose by advert. because I never sent back the docs that..that we both know they DIDNT SEND. So I called the law firm this morning and asked how they plan to continue this without their justification being valid. They said they're 'talking with their client about it' (which means they know they're busted), and will call me back tomorrow.

I reminded them that their sale is scheduled for the 17th and they don't have a legal justification for it. ..and that my counsel was prepared to file a challenge on Monday. I suggested they send me something to sign (or not), or cancel the sale and prepare a judicial proceeding...and that in either event the sale date doesn't give me much time to read & accept/refuse any offer.

They said they'll get back to me tomorrow.

I'm sure I'm still screwed, but this is where we're at. I'll post their clever excuse for continuing the sale when they call tomorrow.

[Tom_Mi]

Hello again, just posting another update. No word back from the Atty/Bank. They're probably preparing docs to send me (that they said they sent me in July).

So I checked my credit and my score had dropped back into the low-mid 600s. Turns out they've been reporting on my discharged home since the discharge date (Apr 09). And the last 3 months have been +120s. I faxed their law firm a screenshot of my equifax account, asking them if the penalty is 1,000 for the one account, or if it's 1,000 for each month of the 19months they've been reporting on the discharged home. They probably won't be intimidated by the question, but it makes me feel good to send it.

I'll probably hear about my fate in the next 24hrs.