Questions about foreclosure...

[broke10]

We filed for BK in Sept. of 08 and received a discharge in Jan. 09. We included our 1st and 2nd mortgage in our BK (GMAC) and never reaffirmed. We stayed in our home and were making voluntary payments. We were just served a notice of foreclosure on 10/13/10. Since we legally owe nothing, we are going to walk away due to the fact that we are upside down on the loan. My questions are:

Are we responsible for the property taxes on the home for 2010? Do we need to contact the city to tell them that we are being foreclosed on and are leaving the property?

Also, as far as utilities go, when we leave can we just call the water, electric and gas providers and tell them we are moving out? Even though the property will be still be in our names until they legally foreclose I obviously do not want the utilities un our name once we leave (will have to transfer them anyway to the new property).

If we were served our initial complaint on 10/13/10, and our calendar call is set for 1/11/11, how long could we stay in our home? How will be notified and by whom when it comes time for us to leave?

Sorry for all the questions, but this whole process is pretty overwhelming and not sure who to ask these questions of! Thanks!

[drowning123]

Call the city and tell them you're discharged and the house was surrendered. You're no longer responsible for property taxes after discharge - at least, that's what I was told on this forum over and over. Call the utility companies and have them turn off the utilities. One thing you need to do is follow up with the utilities in a few months to make sure that they don't turn everything back on, because I've read of cases where this has happened. Good luck.

[HHM]

Call the city and tell them you're discharged and the house was surrendered. You're no longer responsible for property taxes after discharge - at least, that's what I was told on this forum over and over. Call the utility companies and have them turn off the utilities. One thing you need to do is follow up with the utilities in a few months to make sure that they don't turn everything back on, because I've read of cases where this has happened. Good luck.

Actually, that is not 100% accurate.

Technically, the homeowner is still responsible for property taxes so long as the house is in the homeowners name. HOWEVER, once the home eventually forecloses, the foreclosing bank must take care of the property taxes. But, until that happens (foreclosure) the city or county is still going to contact the homeowner of record regarding property taxes.

As for how long you have, that really depends on how your state manages foreclosure.

[AngelinaCatHub]

Anything after your discharge is your responsibility. Property taxes are usually paid for the year ahead and not after the fact. So technically you would owe the tax from discharge date to the notice of foreclosure. In my opinion, I would not tell any city government anything. Let them fight the taxes out with the lender. I doubt the city will be sharp enough to sue you since they can simply lien the property.

Be careful to protect the house until your name is off the Deed. You own the house 100% legally and are responsible. The mortgage has nothing to do with ownership. They only hold a lien and once sued and that is what a foreclosure is, then the Courts transfer ownership. As stacked as their workload is, you might just camp in the house for some time. You will have many notices of things happening and will not be put into the street. Stay until your name is removed from that Deed. Enjoy the free rent.

You certainly are responsible for the utilities of course. Keep insurance on the place. Abandoning the place could cause you some trouble if it is vandalized. I've seen houses gutted for the copper in the walls. 'Hub

[tobee43]

We filed for BK in Sept. of 08 and received a discharge in Jan. 09. We included our 1st and 2nd mortgage in our BK (GMAC) and never reaffirmed. We stayed in our home and were making voluntary payments. We were just served a notice of foreclosure on 10/13/10. Since we legally owe nothing, we are going to walk away due to the fact that we are upside down on the loan. My questions are:

Are we responsible for the property taxes on the home for 2010? Do we need to contact the city to tell them that we are being foreclosed on and are leaving the property?

Also, as far as utilities go, when we leave can we just call the water, electric and gas providers and tell them we are moving out? Even though the property will be still be in our names until they legally foreclose I obviously do not want the utilities un our name once we leave (will have to transfer them anyway to the new property).

If we were served our initial complaint on 10/13/10, and our calendar call is set for 1/11/11, how long could we stay in our home? How will be notified and by whom when it comes time for us to leave?

Sorry for all the questions, but this whole process is pretty overwhelming and not sure who to ask these questions of! Thanks!

this is in fact an overwhelming situation and depending on your state...i would call the atty that handled your bk...just in case.

while you didn't reaffirm, you should be a basically good position....however, it's difficult to tell since you had and have been making payments. for us..we surrendered our home and simply knew that we were no longer legal or financially obligated.

while i do not think you are either...because let's say we didn't vacate...the bank (which by the way in our situation still has NOT foreclosed in 2.7 years), and although the place is vacate, the bank is paying the taxes and insurance ...certainly not us.

i would just extra check with the atty...only because you stayed. and i would also do what drowning suggests and give the sheriff's office a call and tell them that had the debt discharged back a few years ago.

i know in the state i came from had we NOT surrendered and stayed and the foreclosure had not began prior to the discharge we would have been responsible for all foreclosure fees and the deficiency between what the bank sold or would sale the house for and the mortgage. it was really scary where our property was because it was one of the ONLY states that had NO foreclosure CAP fees...and it was not unheard of to have fees in excess of between 50k-100k on TOP of the deficiency amount...i.e. one owes 400k...bank sells property for 200k...and guess what...YOU owe the difference...BUT THAT WAS IN THAT STATE...you're state may handle it completely different.

i would call an atty...this situation is too complex...even for someone that knows a bit...sometimes you just need to roll over the stress...

best of luck and let us know how you make out!

[debee]

Another thing you might want to check is if your city has passed a foreclosure ordinance. If they have, you'll want to familiarize yourself with the terms. Some cities are requiring the legal owner (that's you) to hire a property management company to inspect once a week if you will be relocating out of area, some will give citations with warnings first, others will have your lawn mowed and bill you, etc.

[tobee43]

Another thing you might want to check is if your city has passed a foreclosure ordinance. If they have, you'll want to familiarize yourself with the terms. Some cities are requiring the legal owner (that's you) to hire a property management company to inspect once a week if you will be relocating out of area, some will give citations with warnings first, others will have your lawn mowed and bill you, etc.

this is not true....unless it is a HOA.....and if your town bills you...just list it on your bk...it will be discharged as well. do not let this concern you please. it IS part of what is referred to as FEEs under foreclosure process...all those fees are dischargable provided you are surrendering the premises.

once discharged you have NO financial responsibility although your name may still be on the deed until the foreclosure process is completed...which nowadays can take years....i have even verified that with the bank that holds the mortgage and IS in fact paying the taxes as they do not want to lose my old house for back taxes....

[tobee43]

Actually, that is not 100% accurate.

Technically, the homeowner is still responsible for property taxes so long as the house is in the homeowners name. HOWEVER, once the home eventually forecloses, the foreclosing bank must take care of the property taxes. But, until that happens (foreclosure) the city or county is still going to contact the homeowner of record regarding property taxes.

As for how long you have, that really depends on how your state manages foreclosure.

i understand there continues to be constant debate on this question.

since i'm living with and experiencing this situation for over 2.7 years, we have not been found responsible for anything cost affiliated with the surrendered property once the discharged. we have neither been billed by the bank for upkeep nor the town for taxes....

i will reiterate that in the state our property is located in, there are 1. NO caps on foreclosure fees and costs 2. this state is allowed to collect the deficiency amount..the FEES themselves run many times in excess of and have been known to .....hit as high as 50k-100k.....when one's intention in that state may have merely to have their property foreclosed, they more times than not find their hard pressed into filing bk due to the costs and fees associated with the foreclosure itself. i do understand many states have caps...however where i come from does not.

when speaking to the bank a few weeks ago, in my futile effort to have our names removed from the deed, and in my journey, they, the bank have clearly, and admittedly understand and have stated i have no financial obligation to this property. so, once again, perhaps it depends on the state itself?

[coak1875]

What i was told by a lawyer is the mortgage company will pay the taxes because the property belows to them, they will not let the IRS take the property for taxes.

[drowning123]

That's true about banks paying the taxes. My bank took over the delinquent taxes before I filed for BK.

[debee]

lol. it makes me laugh how many different opinions there are on some topics.

filing bankruptcy doesn't get anyone's name off the title of the house. it gets you out of a deficiency judgment, but you are still the owner. that's why you can live in the house until the house is sold to someone else. You still own it.

as owner and depending on the city ordinances, you can be held responsible for pruning the hedge, mowing the grass, cleaning up any wind-blown trash, graffiti put on the fence, etc. your responsibility will remain until there is an ownership change. the ownership change takes place when the bank forecloses, or if you short sale the property, deed-in-lieu or quit claim. then the new owner is responsible.

the insurance issue is just personal liability. if the house burns down, the bank is at a loss because they cannot come after you for deficiency. the only way you can be held liable is if the city wants the house demolished, or boarded up for safety. if it hasn't foreclosed yet, you can be billed for that. they may also levy fines.

you will receive tax bills, but my understanding is that if you don't pay them, the taxing authority will just attach a lien to the property. that will most become the bank's problem when they take ownership.

What I don't know is how the city enforces the fines. In our case, they know how to find us. They have our contact information. I don't know what happens to people who move out "in the middle of the night" kinda thing. Will they pursue judgments against the homeowner or just attach a lien? If a lien, then it becomes the bank's problem when they foreclose.

But if they pursue the homeowner through collection, then that is a problem.

[tobee43]

lol. it makes me laugh how many different opinions there are on some topics.

filing bankruptcy doesn't get anyone's name off the title of the house. it gets you out of a deficiency judgment, but you are still the owner. that's why you can live in the house until the house is sold to someone else. You still own it.

as owner and depending on the city ordinances, you can be held responsible for pruning the hedge, mowing the grass, cleaning up any wind-blown trash, graffiti put on the fence, etc. your responsibility will remain until there is an ownership change. the ownership change takes place when the bank forecloses, or if you short sale the property, deed-in-lieu or quit claim. then the new owner is responsible.

the insurance issue is just personal liability. if the house burns down, the bank is at a loss because they cannot come after you for deficiency. the only way you can be held liable is if the city wants the house demolished, or boarded up for safety. if it hasn't foreclosed yet, you can be billed for that. they may also levy fines.

you will receive tax bills, but my understanding is that if you don't pay them, the taxing authority will just attach a lien to the property. that will most become the bank's problem when they take ownership.

What I don't know is how the city enforces the fines. In our case, they know how to find us. They have our contact information. I don't know what happens to people who move out "in the middle of the night" kinda thing. Will they pursue judgments against the homeowner or just attach a lien? If a lien, then it becomes the bank's problem when they foreclose.

But if they pursue the homeowner through collection, then that is a problem.

this will be my final response..it's NOT an opinion...i'm living it...if it were just an opinion i would continue to question the situation...however, that's not the case here...no ones talking title here...apples and oranges...finish your bk and see what happens.

they will NOT purse the homeowner through collections and let's put in legal terms....to quote our infamous tom from co......this comes from THOSE who have ACTUALLY lived the scenario and are NOT seeking hypothetical answers ...this applies to REAL people that REALLY filed a BK and got discharged.

automatic stay gets replaced by the discharge injunction. All creditors are prevented from attempting to collect pre-petition debt, essentially forever. Secured creditors cannot attempt to collect from the debtor but they can proceed to recover their collateral/security interest.

that is the law...the house is the collateral...there is simply nothing more although many people don't understand or know better...i suggest to them to continue to throw their money away and pay taxes, insurance....the town and their mothers and while they are at it...why NOT pay your cc's...LOL!!!!

[debee]

I understand that no-one came after you, tobee. I'm glad they didn't. But in the last couple years a number of cities have adopted foreclosure ordinances to prevent blight. These ordinances have shortened time-frames, increased fines, sponsored patrols of vacant properties.

I know the bank cannot come after the homeowner, but the city could. The fines and bills arising post-discharge are not included in the filing. Many cities will now go mow the lawn of a vacant house and then send the bill to the homeowner.

Also, any person who entered the property and stepped on a nail - for instance, a boy scout delivering a flyer - could sue the homeowner.

[Pandora]

lol. it makes me laugh how many different opinions there are on some topics.

the ownership change takes place when the bank forecloses, or if you short sale the property, deed-in-lieu or quit claim. then the new owner is responsible.

Wrong. You are still the legal owner until the deed legally changes from your name to the banks/new owner/cousin joe and quit claiming does not and will not do that no matter if you're foreclosed and post BK or not. Until that deed and title change out of your name - you are the owner.

[tobee43]

I understand that no-one came after you, tobee. I'm glad they didn't. But in the last couple years a number of cities have adopted foreclosure ordinances to prevent blight. These ordinances have shortened time-frames, increased fines, sponsored patrols of vacant properties.

I know the bank cannot come after the homeowner, but the city could. The fines and bills arising post-discharge are not included in the filing. Many cities will now go mow the lawn of a vacant house and then send the bill to the homeowner.

Also, any person who entered the property and stepped on a nail - for instance, a boy scout delivering a flyer - could sue the homeowner.

ok...i know i promised, but here's the deal....i know your in fresno and it's a mess out there...with the foreclosures etc....however, if you listed the town on your petition and you get discharged then you do not owe them either...i don't care what they have adopted...

same here where we live now...the hoa is charging back the homeowner for the maintenance of the property....this is exclusive of the HOA fees, and although the hoa has adopted that the homeowner is responsible for these fees i assure you they will not be collected ever.....while our fees pay for their maintenance.

one can list creditors in advance knowing that fees are being accumulated. if the town is named for an "unknown" amount for those fees they are too be discharged unless.....california bk statues has changed...that would be the one and only way it would be enforceable...as a NON dischargable debt...doubt it or that very much. do you have access to the statue and the one that this applies to. i mean anything can happen, but i have heard this from no one other than you from california.

as i said yet to be seen with your situation....and really actually mine because it ain't over to the skinny cow moo's...(don't want to offend anyone other than a cow).