Wells Fargo - Has anyone heard of this

[Brazzy]

The lien will always be there even if they file chapter 7. They will always get something. The only way they will get nothing would be if the house were foreclosed on by a sr lien holder or taxes became an issue.

[BCA2009]

The lien will always be there even if they file chapter 7. They will always get something. The only way they will get nothing would be if the house were foreclosed on by a sr lien holder or taxes became an issue.

The Op can walk away at anytime and WF will get nothing. That is the leverage. If the OP walks away and rents or buys something else the First will be forced to foreclose and WG gets nothing. Why would the OP ever try to sell, just pay the note on the first (basically rent). And if they ever decide to move, just walk away.

[2manybills]

The Op can walk away at anytime and WF will get nothing. That is the leverage. If the OP walks away and rents or buys something else the First will be forced to foreclose and WG gets nothing. Why would the OP ever try to sell, just pay the note on the first (basically rent). And if they ever decide to move, just walk away.

I agree and I don't think that they want to wait for 4 or 5 years for this market to come back around. Also considering that even if there were some equity, it would cost them somewhere between $65K to $75K to foreclose on a property.

We'll see where this goes.

[Brazzy]

I have to be honest you guys are thinking too short term. They know that the OP is not going to walk away. Its going to be a big charge off regardless and on these time is not a factor. I'm not basing my negotiating tactics on hypothetical situations. I'm basically letting you know that this is how a vast majority of creditors DO react and how WF SHOULD react. There is no guarantee to how they will treat this situation. However if I was the negotiator in this deal I would refer to this as a "clay pigeon". Basically I would shoot it down without thinking twice.

I've given many reasons above. In addition to that I would counter everything said here with a well thought out logical answer (since I would have FAR more info). If you want to go "buy" another property, go ahead. Thats not really a threat. A person just came out of BK. They should not have the cash on hand, nor the credit available to buy another house. Its VERY tough for people who owned a house to go back to renting, and people typically dont want to leave their house it a house always has sentimental value. That being said, with me the deal would have no chance and I would push for a lot more. As for WF I would be SHOCKED if they accepted it as is. Hey, I dont blame you for trying. Hell, you could have started lower. You may just get lucky. I'm just giving you a heads up how a GOOD negotiator thinks these deals out. Hope it helps.

[2manybills]

I have to be honest you guys are thinking too short term. They know that the OP is not going to walk away. Its going to be a big charge off regardless and on these time is not a factor. I'm not basing my negotiating tactics on hypothetical situations. I'm basically letting you know that this is how a vast majority of creditors DO react and how WF SHOULD react. There is no guarantee to how they will treat this situation. However if I was the negotiator in this deal I would refer to this as a "clay pigeon". Basically I would shoot it down without thinking twice.

I've given many reasons above. In addition to that I would counter everything said here with a well thought out logical answer (since I would have FAR more info). If you want to go "buy" another property, go ahead. Thats not really a threat. A person just came out of BK. They should not have the cash on hand, nor the credit available to buy another house. Its VERY tough for people who owned a house to go back to renting, and people typically dont want to leave their house it a house always has sentimental value. That being said, with me the deal would have no chance and I would push for a lot more. As for WF I would be SHOCKED if they accepted it as is. Hey, I dont blame you for trying. Hell, you could have started lower. You may just get lucky. I'm just giving you a heads up how a GOOD negotiator thinks these deals out. Hope it helps.

That may be. And I may have to come back with another offer at maybe 15 cents on the dollar or maybe up to 20. Who knows, but I figured I'd start some place and see where it takes me for sure. From what the Wells guy said to me is that he wanted this "soft" appraisal to see where the market is. Should they decline this offer, I can make another offer. He said his figures were somewhere around $40K for settlement (that was pre-appraisal).

From my propective if I can still settle the lien for 20 cents on the dollar, that's not such a bad deal either. Time will tell, and I will keep you all posted.

[jmanford]

Why are you thinking about paying 40k to WF? Why not just dump the house? Short Sale it and buy another in 2 years. And, keep your 40k. I'm just curious about your rational. I am in a similair boat. I would like to keep the house, but I'm not going.

[Brazzy]

I'm gonna give a few reasons, these may not be pertaining to the poster, but hey why not.

People have sentimental value in houses. If you think you'll just be able to buy another in 2 years I do not personally believe that will be the case. Home loans have really gotten strict, and going forward the standards for which a loan is written will probably be a bit more stringent given the current economy. Things such as foreclosure and bankruptcy will not be taken lightly. Meanwhile in this situation he currently has the best opportunity to keep his house and bang out a second lien in the process. Over time he will pay down the balance on the first and the market will eventually (maybe not to the inflated bubble it was) rebound. You dont want the second to come back and bite you in the ass. Take a shot, throw a low ball offer out there and see what happens. The worst they can do is say no. You get lucky and take care of the second lien, who knows maybe down the road you have some equity in your house to make a move since that 2nd is gone. Its worth a shot. That and no one said he would be paying the $40k. He went low ball, they countered with something high. This is how negotiating works. Eventually a number in the middle is met.

[2manybills]

I'm gonna give a few reasons, these may not be pertaining to the poster, but hey why not.

People have sentimental value in houses. If you think you'll just be able to buy another in 2 years I do not personally believe that will be the case. Home loans have really gotten strict, and going forward the standards for which a loan is written will probably be a bit more stringent given the current economy. Things such as foreclosure and bankruptcy will not be taken lightly. Meanwhile in this situation he currently has the best opportunity to keep his house and bang out a second lien in the process. Over time he will pay down the balance on the first and the market will eventually (maybe not to the inflated bubble it was) rebound. You dont want the second to come back and bite you in the ass. Take a shot, throw a low ball offer out there and see what happens. The worst they can do is say no. You get lucky and take care of the second lien, who knows maybe down the road you have some equity in your house to make a move since that 2nd is gone. Its worth a shot. That and no one said he would be paying the $40k. He went low ball, they countered with something high. This is how negotiating works. Eventually a number in the middle is met.

That is my thought. I'm sure at some point our market will come back, but not for a while, I'm hearing 2015. But no one really knows! And it certainly won't be where it was 3 or 4 years ago for quite a while. Also, our commercial real estate is tanking here right now too, which in the end will still effect home values.

I can tell you that one of my relatives works for one of the very large mortgage companies. She does regular mortgages, not any of the loan mod, or foreclosure stuff. But from what I understand some of the larger banks are changing their lending protocols whereby a home loan can be had maybe 2 years outside of BK. It would only make sense when you consider how many homes have been lost and how many people have had to file. I sometimes call it "The Year of the Floods"!

I will post as I'm going. Thanks to everyone for your input. I really appreciate it.

[jmanford]

If they did take 20k to settle your HELOC, how long do you plan on staying in your home?

[2manybills]

At least 3 or 4 years. I've also considered that if I were still make that HELOC payment of 720 a month (and that's at current interest rates), I would pay that 20K in just over 2 years and my balance would not have decreased one penny.

[jmanford]

are both your loans through Wells Fargo?

[2manybills]

are both your loans through Wells Fargo?

No only the HELOC.

[albacore44]

I'm in a similar situation, except my HELOC is $240K with HSBC. I am 60 days past due today, and expect my BK-7 discharge this week, or soon since friday was day 60. HSBC is a foriegn bank, and I have found not success stories with them. Not sure if foriegn banks charge off at 60 days or not.

[2manybills]

I'm in a similar situation, except my HELOC is $240K with HSBC. I am 60 days past due today, and expect my BK-7 discharge this week, or soon since friday was day 60. HSBC is a foriegn bank, and I have found not success stories with them. Not sure if foriegn banks charge off at 60 days or not.

I am just past 90 days. I should be hearing back from WF this week and will post. I have not seen much on HSBC, but in the end a foreign bank might be easier. You might check loansafe.org, there are quite a few posts on there about this very thing.

[BCA2009]

No only the HELOC.

I have a very similar situation. I will also keep you posted. I have missed three payments on my HELOC and I was discharged in late April. I will wait three or four months ( or until they contact me). And offer some settlement. I am not going to rush it.

I would like to stay in my home but not enough to keep paying the second for an extended time. I can afford it because the 2nd is interest only right now. But I'm not paying down the balance at all, and I don't foresee my equity coming back for many years. So, I'll offer them a fair settlement and if they decline, I will decide to either make payments on the second for a little while. Or take the chance they will actually foreclose. In the meantime, I will look for a different house. In my part of Florida houses just aren't selling. There is a glut of rental property and I have no issues with renting. Time will tell.

Good Luck,