Delay foreclosure in California

[confident]

My attny has something to get it out of my name if it drags on, so I can avoid the HOA after I move.....it's a legal maneuver that we might have to use (he's been in real estate also).

Hmm...do you know more about that? I will ask our atty too.

Thank you again. One can really only look ahead.

[DumbMe]

Haven't gotten to that point yet, am still paying HOA until I leave. It's a legal maneuver that he says has worked for others, so maybe your attny knows about it. I assume many want to keep this knowledge quiet so it's not stopped by HOA's and the powerful collection agencies. Check with your attny.

[Cal8]

Hi,

This is my first post and I'm learning a lot from reading everyone's experiences. I'm planning to file Ch 7 in 2 months and have been speaking with attorneys the past few weeks. I wanted to make a comment about renting since it's being discussed here.

I live in Northern Calif (near SF) and currently rent. I decided to move to a smaller place to cut my expenses and to do it now before my credit tanks.
My credit score is 707, all of my accounts current with no lates.
I'm self-employed, have several mortgages for rental properties out of state and high credit card debt.

Yesterday I was turned down for an apartment (the owner said due to my self-employment and high debt-income ratio). Now I'm *really* worried that I won't be able to rent after filing so am feeling stuck staying in my current apartment. The landlords here may be more strict here than in other areas.

[DumbMe]

Yes, that was a huge concern of mine too, but not so much anymore. I'm even thinking of buying again fairly soon as I have a co-signer (my son) who can help me with that. What I did do, my Fico was 710 as I paid all on-time tho' I have a huge debt because of my mortgage, was to struggle and pay off my credit cards, and then printed out my Credit Reports along the way, especially the last one just before I filed for Bankruptcy.

I have a good CPA and will go back and have her do my Taxes *without* my mortgage to show my income vs. outgo *without* the darn mortgage amounts so it's easily shown how good I am with paying off debts but struggling ONLY because of the mortgage. I claim part of my residence for a self-employment business (computer room, etc. I work at home) and yet I am "in the red" ONLY because of the mortgage and interest payments, otherwise I'd owe taxes for the income I had. I believe that's important to prove to ANY prospecting landlord.

Funny thing happened after bankruptcy file, my FICO only went down only 30 points, and debt-to-income ratio was totally changed with bk. filing. And now (almost discharged) FICO steadily has risen to it's former status (one of them is 710 points again) in 2-3 months and climbing as I immediately got a credit (not debit) card that reports on the FICO, and making my car payments on-time etc.

But almost 1/2 million (you know the bubble of real estate in Calif. is huge) of debt is GONE now, the mortgage debt stopped before it went into "late-pay" so there's no late-pays on the FICO (I filed on the 30th of the month)....and with my debt totally gone, the FICO keeps on rising. Of course you must pay what you keep on-time and be astute with anything you owe for, always pay (which I've always done in my life!).

I've always paid on-time that but nooooo, that didn't count with the mortgage servicer (Wells-Fargo who I consider the gestapo)...they loved my 20% down money (and my huge payments paid on time each month) and so are foreclosing eventually as they will make a lot of money on my place which is 20-30% underwater even with the 20% down I put in, but it had to shock them that instead I filed for bankruptcy, good! That's the ONLY thing banks fear! I deserve a good life as does every honest home-owner who loses money on their Predator and Biased loans for causing us so much harm, illness and insanity.

I will advise, be careful - this is a horrible mental thing too, don't let it be that way, be cold....just KNOW you're OK, and that's hard to do in this nutty time. A roof over one's head is very basic to mankind, and this nuttiness by the banks is deliberate. What better way to control a populace but to threaten them with homelessness?

Banks want YOU to feel guilty (and even "breaking the law" when fighting them!), it's the BANKS who are breaking the law, NEVER FORGET THAT. It's so easy to silently suffer and feel guilty over not being able to pay for a mortgage, feeling guilty that you're unable to take care of yourself no matter how much you pay, feeling guilty in trying to in-vain save any of your assets....... when THEY are the ones who are the criminals as much as if they came in your house, attacked and beat you up, and raped you.....

these are the criminals! Not us middle-class honest people who paid and paid and paid after putting 20% down on a home and other assets. They can drive you crazy if you let them, it's important to maintain human contacts with your friends throughout all this, you don't have to "confess your life" but to feel that you're a good human being is critical at this time. You CAN maintain your sanity, you have to keep looking at the time when you WILL be happy again, will feel safe and secure in a nice place again, and not owe a monster who is cheating you out of house and home, you have to look at the future and don't get mired in self-pity (tho' a good cry helps), and one foot in front of the other does it.

That's the thing I had to fight and learn about, at 75 it's not easy to start over in your life but if I can do it, anyone can do it. The future looks GOOD to me now, and now my 3 cats will also have a home with me soon (but peoples' pets do pay sometimes with their lives as you can only have 1-2 pets at most sometimes in rentals and shelters are over-full here and not taking any more). I will never forgive Wells Fargo for the criminal and mental harm they are doing to American citizens who legally just wanted (and paid for!) a roof over their head, to fatten up their own purses with their arrogance.....this is a holocaust in the making right now against the legal American home-owner and tax-payer.

[DumbMe]

PS. There's a website where you can learn what's going on with the mortgage holder/servicer too, it's called docedge.com Working with the County Recorder is tough sometimes, you have to pay for "copies of docs" and get them mailed to you each time you want to ask a question.

Just be aware with Wells-Fargo, Warren Buffett owns a ton of shares of WF, don't know if he's their largest stock-holder or not, but why they're so arrogant makes sense now with "his money". My feeling? The bigger they are, the harder they fall. I've had the finest of attorneys (music biz) in the past in LA and Beverly Hills, and I am so glad to have my bk attorney in Orange Co.

Somehow the ones in LA seem either kind of dumb in LA county from what I've experienced, or worse, like the bad attny I had here for awhile who turned out to have done some criminal activities himself. It's important to check out any bk attny, there's so many who will just take your money and do a bad job, it's important to have peace of mind. There are good ones out there, I'm blessed with mine.

[DumbMe]

PS Again. I posted the docedge.com which is fine if you want to spend $99.00 a month, and I believe this is used by mortgage brokers, legal eagles etc. There is another one called: netronline.com this is only $25 a month to access your property files with.

[confident]

Hi,

This is my first post and I'm learning a lot from reading everyone's experiences. I'm planning to file Ch 7 in 2 months and have been speaking with attorneys the past few weeks. I wanted to make a comment about renting since it's being discussed here.

I live in Northern Calif (near SF) and currently rent. I decided to move to a smaller place to cut my expenses and to do it now before my credit tanks.
My credit score is 707, all of my accounts current with no lates.
I'm self-employed, have several mortgages for rental properties out of state and high credit card debt.

Yesterday I was turned down for an apartment (the owner said due to my self-employment and high debt-income ratio). Now I'm *really* worried that I won't be able to rent after filing so am feeling stuck staying in my current apartment. The landlords here may be more strict here than in other areas.

You might think about the fact that since you're applying before BK (smart), your debt-to-income ratio will definitely higher than post-BK. However, it is also sticky to apply during BK (like we did) but if you keep trying, some owners actually can be sympathetic to individual situations. In our experience it seemed the realtors that represented the owners would automatically decline poor credit/BK folks, and there may be exceptions to that, but if you're sincere, and genuine, and can show you are otherwise a responsible person, you can find a place to rent you want to call home. Good luck

[DumbMe]

I wanted to add to this, Monday Oct. 4th. In the news was news of "foreclosures being halted because of mistakes in the documentation blah blah blah". I'm sure that will be true for awhile, but any talk about any action to help homeowners is just that, talk.

The financial industry has had to make media references continually to ally fears in others who know nothing about this huge catastrophe in the making. The one picture with the cancer-patient at the NACA downtown LA Convention Center trying to get a modification puts a face on the entire picture. That in the news said more than any phony baloney the vips and discussion groups can ever say on TV....that and Bankruptcy are the ONLY things banks are afraid of.

Landlords are just now beginning to see that their future potential renters, victims of foreclosure, are not at fault (most of them) with this disaster of epic proportions. There's other middle-class people like me who have worked hard all their lives (I worked in a man's field, doing the job better than any man could do), and some are like me, 75 years old making payments all their lives on-time, and spitting nails because they've lost $180,000 or more on their homes because they paid 20% down etc. Try going back to work to make that money up for any viable future. With my particular case, piracy by the younger generations have eaten into 40% of my income, something I can't stop and the government, bowing to Google, won't stop either.

Don't believe the lies being told in the press how "banks are trying to respect homeowners, giving them over 1/2 million in modifications", that's pure bunk, they never respected homeowners, neither did the escrow companies and some realtors too....banks probably started 1/2 million (to get the government fees for modifications) and then foreclosed on most homeowners anyway as you see on the internet complaints.

It's more than "un-trained" new help reading from their manuals, it's more than any "mistakes" (on-purpose, always in the banks' favor mmmm), it's more than "homeowners trying to cheat the banks so they can own a home" those are long-gone now, it's not because they're "busy" (unless the many 1,000s of new-hires hired for this are sitting around telling jokes), it's the banks' greed, how to get even more money from foreclosed homes than if the homeowner paid their loans. That's cruel, dastardly, and legally wrong as well as morally un-forgivable....a further fleecing of people who want to own a home. Pure GREED.

Yes, you can rent, yes, you can later buy another home at discount prices and not years later either, but in very little time! If you're careful when you file for bankruptcy and show responsibility in trying to pay off your bills *before* you file, and file at the right time, it's really a shoe-in once you've filled out the papers (which the lawyer's crew can help you with). We the legitimate and bill-paying homeowners are being screwed but the shoe can readily be on the other foot too, if you use your brainpower.

[DumbMe]

I forgot to tell everyone. The last time I applied for a "modification" (2nd time, other 4 times were applications for HARP re-fi's) at Wells Fargo, the lady, a 30-year employee in mortgage loans, looked at my 2 income tax years and said "I don't need these, they show from your home-business that there's 'no income'"....of course there's "no income", the cost of the mortgage was eating up all profits! So next time I saw her she told me "Wells Fargo turned you down for any modification".

OK. But this was after she sent me an email to that same thing, and we corresponded via email, and she finally sent me copies of "internal email memos" that she wasn't supposed to (they had "confidential all over these emails and that was "illegal to let the homeowner know the contents of the email etc., not to be disclosed to public" something like that on the emails). I have them on-file, and printed out all those Wells Fargo Inter-Office private emails.

Just to see what they'd say, I sent a letter complaining about the inaccuracy of the reason for turning me down, and quoting even a politician friend of mine, his note about it all that he was "stunned" as to how I am being treated. In answer to my letter, I received a reply, a "long official letter back from Wells, a long in-depth one basically stating "we didn't get any income tax reports from you and so the matter is closed." How about that one for a blatant lie? Just one of many lies after I took my income tax reports down to the mortgage lady. I don't think they knew that I had copies of their inter-office emails with their private tho'ts of what they were going to do to me.

The copies of the inter-office official (private) Wells Fargo emails inadvertently sent to me stated:

it was their "policy" not to give any more modifications and went on and on with all kinds of excuses of how to avoid dealing with me, the homeowner, so they could "eventually legally foreclose on my home", something I printed out and saved for any possible lawsuit against Wells Fargo - I then had printed proof that they did not even want to try to comply to the HAMP Obama government modification process. Just to let everyone know. That's when I planned on the timing for my bankruptcy filing.

I have that proof which yes, bothered me that Wells Fargo (and am sure rest of the banks too) are/were breaking the law, and there it was. They don't give a damn about any homeowner once they know they can use your down-payment monies to make money off of any foreclosure they want against you. This was deliberate theft of my home, proof what they were planning to do was breaking the law in a future foreclosure of my home since they knew I couldn't afford the mortgage payments any longer.

So to anyone reading this, if anything funny is going on with your dealings with any bank, assume the worst, as you can be next. File for bankruptcy, but be smart about it by pre-planning stuff beforehand, and you'll do good. BK is the only thing they fear since they know how to work the Obama plan-system to get what they want.

This latest? They'll figure a way out of this one too. The banks have all the power over Wall St, politicians etal, I'd be curious as to how they managed that.....is Obama and crew just anemic? Or do they really know what is happening, or care?

We're truly on our own with this national disaster.

[good2free]

Got NOD

Hello All,

I finally got my NOD on 9/27. Some letters are coming in the mail from short sale agents saying that the sale could happen on 1/25/2010.

Can this be true? They are adding 90 + 21 days to 9/27 and estimating the sale date to be at the end of Jan 2011.

Can I do anything at this point to delay the sale date?

I am all happy and saving some money for future.

thanks

[DumbMe]

In Calif., it's supposed to be 111 days I believe is the number, so that sounds about right. At least you know now approx. when you should have a moving date but it's doubtful you can even stall them now, as they don't put that on-hold anymore for "short sales" (most of which don't go through anyway with the bank saying "no" at the last minute) tho' you can try if your bank might stall the sale with promise of the short sale.

IMO, real estate agents are just trying to cash in on their fees from the banks and really they don't give a hoot about you at all. Regardless of what they say, bottom line is all realtors are thinking about is their fee, they might appear sympathetic but I doubt if they really care about the situation you're in, esp. here in parts of Calif. where they can be phony.

That being said, you can try with a contract for sale with them, doesn't hurt a thing - you don't have to fill out papers )for the bank just yet), but just stall with the bank a month or so with that maybe (and you don't have to show your place no) - remember, realtors will say anything, don't believe them. They're looking at their fee that they collect from the bank only imo - 6% is still a lot of money to them.

Give them the finger and go carefully planning for the future for yourself and family. And have a good attny to scrutinize carefully anything you sign with buying in the future. I've had attnys look at my Wells Fargo mortgage papers, one who wrote realty laws, and couldn't understand the contract they had, such is the garbage they had for "contracts".....Geithner doesn't care either, he's born with a golden spoon in his mouth, and has no empathy for what homeowners are going through with his failed Hamp/Harp policies (done strictly for his banker-friends!). There's people in high places that should not be there, and I blame Warren Buffett too for his greed in buying Wells Fargo with his co. and enhancing their power to grab everyone's home from them.

Do what is GOOD for YOU, not anyone sweet-talking you into realtor fees with short-sales etc. that mostly will never happen anyway since banks turn down most of short sales anyway. I don't trust anyone right now with anything, just be careful now that you're steering the right course for YOU, that's the most important. Short sales don't do anything good for you, your place is discharged in bankruptcy, short sales could open up another can of worms for your credit scores.

Funny how realtors and attorneys who could make money $$$$$ with short-sales will say "it helps your credit scores to have a short sale on there rather than "foreclosure"....well they're WRONG! You got people willing to make MONEY off of your problems, and you don't need them at all!

Foreclosure due to bankruptcy is redundant, it's just a matter of "surrendering in bankruptcy" in a ONE-TIME PERIOD as for your credit scores. Dragging it all out with short-sales will insure more problems for your credit scores rather than just the simple bankruptcy which is easier to recover from than on and on and on with short-sale (and eventual denial of short-sale then....foreclosure!) etc. Once you're done with bankruptcy, you're DONE period, your credit scores start over, nothing to do with what the bank does AFTER they get the place back.

One piece of advice I'd say, make sure you tell the bank "I'm staying in my place UNTIL you take it OUT OF MY NAME" and don't let them talk you down, which they try to do but echo the phrase "you have to foreclose ACCORDING TO CALIF. LAW since you're a business inside this state!" etc. etc. They think they're dealing with someone stupid who let their "house go", but mention the word "sue" and "state laws they have to abide with" will put some power in your hands too when dealing with them, they're ugly sometimes and "demanding"....

I had one bank guy even say when I told him my bankruptcy was NOT discharged when he said it was - I told him "you have to go according to Calif. laws not your own law" plus when he replied with "your bankruptcy and 'other' things in your bankruptcy" sort of as a put-down, I told him "I don't owe anything but your stupid criminal predator mortgage which is now in bankruptcy and YOU CANNOT SAY MY BANKRUPTCY IS DISCHARGED WHEN IT'S NOT, ACCORDING TO CALIF. LAW - YOU NEED TO BE SUED! - YOU TOOK MY EQUITY MONEY OF $100,000 and STOLE THAT AND THE WORLD NEEDS TO KNOW WHAT KIND OF CRIMINALS YOU ALL ARE!" He backed down then.

Yes, saving money is good! It's even good for our economy! I've got my fridge stocked with food, what a relief. Just got my bk discharge but not the NOD yet and just trying to correct some errors on the Fico. You know, banks will put anything on your credit score bad for you just to give you trouble. It's supposed to be "zero" but then they open "new accounts" just to put a balance there to hurt your score, that's illegal but they try to do it anyway - you have to send copies of your bankruptcy to all 3 Fico co's to correct the 3 Fico scores.

I wonder if this latest round of investigations into the robo-signings might delay things for you (?), but I also think it depends upon which bank you have. Wells is the worst criminal of them all, is that your bank too? Glad you're happy now, that's 1/2 the battle, to have a some control over your life back, yes....!

PS. Just remember, it's not YOU (or us) who are the criminals no matter what you do now to take care of yourself at all.

The banks by greedily lending to ANYONE just to make the money for the loan before shuffling it all off on someone else, are at fault. THEY are the ones who created this mortgage mess, not the honest homeowner trying to put a roof over their heads. Don't let ANYONE take your new-found power away from you, either with sweet talk (the realtors) or lies (like some attorneys) or threats (banks etc.) either....talk is cheap, and so many are good at talking a good game to get what *they want -- $$$* out of your situation. I've had some rough crooks I've dealt with (publishing crooks are bad) and some people in my younger days in the music world to deal with but this is another ball-game:

the mortgage/financial/escrow/realty business is the glue that holds our country together for putting a roof over everyone's head, it's deep and sometimes very ugly. You now hold the winning hand, you don't have to deal with criminals anymore, be careful, don't believe the hypes that will come your way, all of them trying to make money off of your tough situation that is slowly clearing up because you took the right steps, bankruptcy and saving your money in a soon-to-be-foreclosed home, they're stealing right out from under you.