Which to do 1st?

[ediev]

Another thing to consider is if it appears obvious to the trustee that you are letting the house go - Quit making payments; Get foreclosed; or don't "intend to Re-affirm" - You probably won't be allowed to use your mortgage payment on the means test. If you are very low income, this might not matter. But if you are anywhere near the median it could be a problem.

Hmmm.....well we are currently pretty below the median (fortunately?)...however don't they allow you to use some kind of average rent payment for the area? Or are you just saying i won't be able to use my curren't mortgage payment? (Average rent will suffice - "ZERO rent will NOT!)

[DebtStinks]

We're underwater with our house about the same amt - about $325,000 in mortgage debt and house would probably sell somewhere around $150,000+-

Someone else mentioned that if you do not want to keep the house, they will allow an additional wild card exemption. I thought in Florida, where I am - they only allow a total $1,000 exemption for each person...I'm getting a little confused about this and will definitely speak to my attorney-but not before next week (I'm so impatient - not to mention I will judge his reply based on the info i receive here - is that bad?). If I was able to save AND exempt $20K - I would definitely hold off on filing BK. My only rush is so that I can get it out of the way in order to save my money while I wait for the foreclosure to go through.

http://www.thebankruptcysite.org/exemptions/florida.html

From what I see above FL exemptions pretty much suck for people that are under water on their homes. It looks to be setup to protect all the equity that you might have in your house and not much else. Only 1k for a car? Really!?!? The wildcard does look to be only 1k per person (2k for joint BK).

Learn everything you can about bankruptcy THEN start hitting the free consultations with some lawyers. You will quickly find that YOU know more about bankruptcy than some of these lawyers. It seems that many lawyers are just hiring paralegals that know bankruptcy and having them do most of the work so they can capitalize on the surge in filings. Run, don't walk, from places like this.

[DebtStinks]

Hmmm.....well we are currently pretty below the median (fortunately?)...however don't they allow you to use some kind of average rent payment for the area? Or are you just saying i won't be able to use my current mortgage payment? (Average rent will suffice - "ZERO rent will NOT!)

Means test really only comes into play if you are above median income or if you schedules show significant income regardless of income. You might want to just play around with the means test to get a better idea of how things work. Try this means test wizard that I wrote when messing around with our bankruptcy:

http://www.johnfire.com/meanstest/wizard.php

** I haven't updated the IRS data but it should still be within a couple of percent.

[ediev]

Yes this is something that you need to look at very closely if you need the mortgage (over mean income). It's not the same across all courts... and this is where research and having a GOOD attorney that knows your local rulings will help a ton.

In our area you can use the mortgage on a house that you are surrendering. But it does have to be reasonable and not a million dollar house and your making 300k a year.... cause they can and will hit you with a totality of circumstance argument on a theoretical forward looking means test on your ability to fun a chapter 13 AFTER you have surrendered the secured debt.

Point taken - million dollar house - LOL- not here - $300K (not even close -not yet anyways - i can dream of the future, right? ) Currently I don't think any trustee would blink an eye (knocking on wood). We truly don't make a lot, live a humble life (house/cars/expenses), and our CC usage I don't feel is questionable in regards to amount/frequency/type of use. Just gotten ourselves into a bit of a bind and could really use a fresh start.

[ediev]

http://www.thebankruptcysite.org/exe...s/florida.html

From what I see above FL exemptions pretty much suck for people that are under water on their homes. It looks to be setup to protect all the equity that you might have in your house and not much else. Only 1k for a car? Really!?!? The wildcard does look to be only 1k per person (2k for joint BK).

Learn everything you can about bankruptcy THEN start hitting the free consultations with some lawyers. You will quickly find that YOU know more about bankruptcy than some of these lawyers. It seems that many lawyers are just hiring paralegals that know bankruptcy and having them do most of the work so they can capitalize on the surge in filings. Run, don't walk, from places like this.

Yep - that's what i thought.

I've actually already retained a lawyer (2 actually - 1 that specializes in foreclosures - 1 in BK). I'm not 100% sure if I jumped the gun with the BK attorney. He is established, been around for a while and was recommended. HOWEVER, we specifically asked for an appt with him. Once there, one of his "assistants" started talking to us - we basically said "We want to speak with so & so"...he said..."I'm just taking notes - he'll be with you shortly". Which IS what happened...BUT the "asst" attempted to answer our questions in the meantime, and his replies were NOT accurate or reassuring whatsoever - on the verge perhaps of being even illegal. When the lawyer finally did join us, he listened and answered our questions, and did seem knowledgeable. But, I did feel he was a little hurried to move on to the next appt, and gave us the impression of - no problem - it's easy. I'm a person that needs to know all the details (can you tell?) I did not get them at the time, however this was the initial consultaton and at the time, our game plan was to file BK perhaps 18 months down the road. I've already paid the retainer. I'm going to attempt to meet with him next week with our new game plan. If for some reason I still don't feel 100%, heck "75%" confident in him, would I be able to say - I want my money back - you suck?

[DebtStinks]

Read the paperwork you signed when you retained him... odds are no refunds.

[DeadManCrawling]

That site is outdated.

The new Florida wildcard exemption went into effect in 2007. If you are not claiming a homestead exemption-you are surrendering the home-you may take a $4k exemption in addition to the exemptions listed on that site. For a married coupe, you can double, creating $8k in wildcard exemptions.

http://www.bankruptcyorlando.com/2008/02/florida-court-c.html

It is unfortunate, but many sites still use the outdated information, and I can only wonder how many people have inadvertently hurt their case by being misinformed.

Note that you MUST indicate your intent to surrender in order to claim this exemption. There is case-law already established to this effect. A debtor in one case initially claimed she would be keeping the house, and later changed her mind. I think she was trying to do a ride-through but also needed the wildcard exemption. She ended up being denied the wildcard, but only because she initially indicated she would keep the home.

[DebtStinks]

That site is outdated.

The new Florida wildcard exemption went into effect in 2007. If you are not claiming a homestead exemption-you are surrendering the home-you may take a $4k exemption in addition to the exemptions listed on that site. For a married coupe, you can double, creating $8k in wildcard exemptions.

http://www.bankruptcyorlando.com/2008/02/florida-court-c.html

It is unfortunate, but many sites still use the outdated information, and I can only wonder how many people have inadvertently hurt their case by being misinformed.

Note that you MUST indicate your intent to surrender in order to claim this exemption. There is case-law already established to this effect. A debtor in one case initially claimed she would be keeping the house, and later changed her mind. I think she was trying to do a ride-through but also needed the wildcard exemption. She ended up being denied the wildcard, but only because she initially indicated she would keep the home.

Grrr, I had the same issue with CA and it took some searching to find the most recent exemptions. But that page for FL that I linked said: "This list of exemptions updated December 2009" so I assumed it was current.

Sorry about that.

[ediev]

Means test really only comes into play if you are above median income or if you schedules show significant income regardless of income. You might want to just play around with the means test to get a better idea of how things work. Try this means test wizard that I wrote when messing around with our bankruptcy:

http://www.johnfire.com/meanstest/wizard.php

** I haven't updated the IRS data but it should still be within a couple of percent.

Fantastic DebtStinks! Good job on this little tool. I've tried playing with some others, but yours was by far the easiest.

The outcome is however, what I already knew - I'm currently poor! Doesn't look like I'll have any problems filing BK7 I am just still concerned about my biz though. Clearly we are not making millions, but it lets my husband & I stay home & spend our time the way WE want to-specifically with our young children. It would truly suck if they took it away, especially since it currently produces income BELOW the median income!

[HakunaMatata]

Sleep well tonight knowing this post will make at least one other person have a peaceful night's sleep Thank you so much!

Awww...thank you.

Regarding the BK attorney...

Did you sign a contract? What portion of his fee did you pay? If hearty, you may be able to recover some of your money (especially if this attorney hasn't invested considerable time into your case). You may want to rephrase your attorney comment "I want my money back. You suck"...although, I really like it!!

If you're on the fence with this attorney, schedule a few more consultations. The attorney interviewing process can be frustrating (I was shocked by the varying suggestions/interpretations); although, it can be beneficial. For me, the process (while confusing at times) spurred new questions, increased my knowledge, and aided in gaining momentum and confidence.

Below is a link to a great article HHM offered me as I was engaged in the attorney interviewing process. If you intend to meet with the current attorney, you may want to pose some of the included questions...

http://askmethner.com/?p=609

[ediev]

That site is outdated.

The new Florida wildcard exemption went into effect in 2007. If you are not claiming a homestead exemption-you are surrendering the home-you may take a $4k exemption in addition to the exemptions listed on that site. For a married coupe, you can double, creating $8k in wildcard exemptions.

http://www.bankruptcyorlando.com/2008/02/florida-court-c.html

It is unfortunate, but many sites still use the outdated information, and I can only wonder how many people have inadvertently hurt their case by being misinformed.

Note that you MUST indicate your intent to surrender in order to claim this exemption. There is case-law already established to this effect. A debtor in one case initially claimed she would be keeping the house, and later changed her mind. I think she was trying to do a ride-through but also needed the wildcard exemption. She ended up being denied the wildcard, but only because she initially indicated she would keep the home.

Seriously people - I have participated in a lot of forums in my life, but never have i received such valuable and QUICK information! You people rock! I will check this site out - but i feel like i don't even need to go anywhere else! I am eternally grateful and hopefully one day I'll be able to pay it forward.

[ediev]

Awww...thank you.

Regarding the BK attorney...

Did you sign a contract? What portion of his fee did you pay? If hearty, you may be able to recover some of your money (especially if this attorney hasn't invested considerable time into your case). You may want to rephrase your attorney comment "I want my money back. You suck"...although, I really like it!!

If you're on the fence with this attorney, schedule a few more consultations. The attorney interviewing process can be frustrating (I was shocked by the varying suggestions/interpretations); although, it can be beneficial. For me, the process (while confusing at times) spurred new questions, increased my knowledge, and aided in gaining momentum and confidence.

Below is a link a great article HHM offered me as I was engaged in the attorney interviewing process. If you intend to meet with the current attorney, you may want to pose some of the included questions...

http://askmethner.com/?p=609

My comment was sincere and deserved.

I will check this site out too...and we did not put down much of a retainer - as we weren't really preparing to do anything for a long time - they just wanted something in order to get the go ahead to start perhaps deterring CA calls and the like. Not too concerned about never seeing that moola again - but I won't pay anything else until I've met with him again and feel he's the right match for me. (I don't doubt he's legitamely good at what he does - just maybe not for my personality? esp since he is VERY, VERY BUSY!) Aren't they are? Oh and he does not come cheap - at least I think $2,000 (w/o court costs) is not a cheap BK 7?

Thank you all so much - hard to keep up with all the replies. I'm feeling the love people - thank you thank you thank you!

[HakunaMatata]

Don't feel obligated to respond to each and every comment. Most of us have been you...and we're here trying to pay it forward.

One of my consult attorneys SUCKED. Big time. Evidence of such surfaced when he asked "are you going to screw your Credit Union too?". I was a straight no asset, not a dime hiding in my couch, under the median, honest chica. This consult attorney nearly demanded a retainer. I was new to the process -fearful and uncomfortable. Thankfully, I was so baffled by his comments and demeanor; I didn't give this slime ball my money. However, I did ask if he accepted credit cards!

Cost isn't necessarily an indicator of a good attorney. In my case, the aforementioned slime ball was the most expensive. Business levels aren't necessarily indicative of quality either (I consulted with an independent attorney who had extremely reasonable fees, a modest office, a meager staff, a wealth of knowledge/experience, and offered personalized service in a quiet office setting). Knowledge, experience, and personality factored into my decision. I wanted my BK process to work...and a solid working relationship was pivotal as well.

[DebtStinks]

Fantastic DebtStinks! Good job on this little tool. I've tried playing with some others, but yours was by far the easiest.

The outcome is however, what I already knew - I'm currently poor! Doesn't look like I'll have any problems filing BK7 I am just still concerned about my biz though. Clearly we are not making millions, but it lets my husband & I stay home & spend our time the way WE want to-specifically with our young children. It would truly suck if they took it away, especially since it currently produces income BELOW the median income!

Well what kind of business... all service related? Any business assets like inventory or the like? I also ran a home business but it's NOTHING without me so it has zero value to anyone. This is the way most home businesses are... and it's not something they can take away.

[ediev]

Hakuna - thanks for the "pardon" on me not having to reply to everyone who replies to my thread. However, for the time being anyways, I do feel the need and for the most part, the replies leave me with more questions. Right now, my question/concerns have changed somewhat. I read through your article re selecting an attorney and it left me wondering if I retained a "dud". I read through my contract (no refunds btw), thought about the consultation I had with him, and I do believe he raised the majority of the red flags outlined in the article. So I slept on it - awoke with the same heebie-jeebies. I now want to visit some other attorneys. Honestly I would prefer more of a boutique-type place. No big fancy office - just talk to me and impress me with your knowledge, experience and customer service. Is that too much to ask?

So I want to do a few more attorney interviews. I don't know if this is against the forum policies or not (I'm sure someone will let me know if it is), but I would sure like any suggestions for a BK attorney in Miami-Dade County. Anyone have an attorney in the area they would recommend??? Don't want to go through the yellow pages!

DebtStinks - My business has no assets - I don't think they'll want our 2-4 year old computers (2 of them) and 10 year old printers - although they can have them if they want them - they're really just in the way at this point. Oh and I should not forget my banged up hand-me-down desk, of which who knows how old it is???? WE are the business. Service providers. We get paid BEFORE the service is performed, otherwise it is simply not performed. If they take us away, no one would pay, despite wether or not they've agreed to do it for 6 months or not (and that is not even binding - they can pull out at any time). As a matter of fact, if they took us away, they would end up owing people money, as some people may have already paid for 3 months of service, which without us - you take away that service, so refunds are due. Unless I'm missing something, I think we're OK. Our biz & the service we provide is actually pretty unique and I would love to explain in detail to get some feedback on any pitfalls, but I'm afraid it would clearly point out to any lurking banks or trustees or whoever who I am. This is paranoid thinking, I know...but still...can't help it. My only fear in this whole process is that they take away my ability to earn money they way I've been doing it for the past 8+ years.