What would you do?

[IBroke]

Hi,

As I wrote in a previous thread, we are currently waiting for the HAMP-modififaction on our first mortgage, served by SPS (Select Portfolio Servicing).

On September, 1st, we made our first trial-payment under the trial payment plan. According to that agreement, additional payments are due on October 1st and November 1st.

A few days ago, we called SPS to set up the electronic payment for the second trial payment, due on October 1st.

NOW.....The lady from SPS told us that there are no payments due until December, 1st and that ALL trial payments have been received. My only explanation is that they applied some forbearance payments we made prior to the last trial payment to this plan.

Here's my calculation from the previous thread:

http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.php?t=42407&page=4

So here's my question: Do you think it's OK to trust them and skip the payment? We didn't receive a statement, either. We asked for a verification that we needed make a payment prior to December but SPS claimed that since it's paid, they won't mail anything to us.

So far, we fullfilled every requirement and deadline so I don't know what to do?!

On the one hand, it's great because we could use the "saved" money to catch up on some bills but on the other hand, we don't want to risk anything - especially not the HAMP-modification and our home.

I was thinking about calling them prior to the due date and have them verify that nothing is due and RECORD THAT PHONECALL to have some proof. Does anybody know if that would provide us some legal back-up IF required? FYI, we are living in FL and they have their office in UT. I don't think I have to ask for permission to record the conversation because they start EVERY call with an automated message that the call will be recorded from their side for quality purposes.

Thanks for your input!

[StartingOver08]

Well, this is JMO, but if they won't put it in writing, then there is a problem. I saw your math and they could be right that they have applied the forebearance payments to your HAMP trial payments. But, if that's the case, why can't they put it in writing?

Can you send them a QWR letter? Then they have to reply with the information. Is there written correspondence from them after your forebearance payments detailing which payments need to be made by you to qualify for HAMP? There must be something in writing from them.

My opinion, something in writing trumps something verbal when it comes to real estate. I would not put it past the bank to tell you something that would not be in your best interest.

[IBroke]

Well, this is JMO, but if they won't put it in writing, then there is a problem. I saw your math and they could be right that they have applied the forebearance payments to your HAMP trial payments. But, if that's the case, why can't they put it in writing?

Can you send them a QWR letter? Then they have to reply with the information. Is there written correspondence from them after your forebearance payments detailing which payments need to be made by you to qualify for HAMP? There must be something in writing from them.

My opinion, something in writing trumps something verbal when it comes to real estate. I would not put it past the bank to tell you something that would not be in your best interest.

Thanks!

We received the trial period payment plan which indicates that there are 3 trial payments due on 09/01, 10/01 and 11/01. That agreement was signed and returned to them.

BTW, what is a QWR letter?

[StartingOver08]

Thanks!

We received the trial period payment plan which indicates that there are 3 trial payments due on 09/01, 10/01 and 11/01. That agreement was signed and returned to them. This is a written agreement you signed. So they WILL refer to this agreement. The fact that you are 'already paid' is something they said to you verbally. I would not trust the servicer to honor anything they said to you verbally.

BTW, what is a QWR letter?

QWR letter = Qualified Written Request. Here is an example of one that is extremely detailed:http://www.loansafe.org/forum/unite-...t-buckets.html

[IBroke]

QWR letter = Qualified Written Request. Here is an example of one that is extremely detailed:http://www.loansafe.org/forum/unite-...t-buckets.html

Thanks!

[IBroke]

Soooo...I was able to log in to our account and look at the latest statement from 09/16.

It shows there was an unapplied beginning balance on 08/19 of $2,788.00, resulting from a prior forbearance payment and some change. This unapplied balance increased to $4,105.50 on 09/01 due to our first trial payment. The trial period payment plan went into effect on 09/01.

On 09/03, the statement shows a "Short Payment" in the amount of $4,105.50, reducing the unapplied balance to $0.

The total amount due under the trial period plan for the 3 payments would have been $3,952.50.

Since we "paid" more than that on 09/03, wouldn't that mean we made all required payments? We should have a "credit" of $153.00 deducted from what's due on 12/01....

[IBroke]

Now get this:

This morning, my mother received an ADDITIONAL call from SPS, requesting a profit/loss schedule from her business. They also verified that there is no payment due until 12/01.

Still, I wasn't feeling comfortable so we called them, this time recording the conversation. We asked: "When is the next payment due?"

SURPRISE:

10/01...

They "apologized" for the confusion and called it a "miscommunication". Indeed, we "overpayed" two months but there mustn't be a gap under the trial payment plan, so we will receive the two "free" months after the trial.

Now, isn't that great:
SPS is calling their customers currently under HAMP and sends out "invitations" to get disqualified for HAMP. So even if you have the money to get the modification, their stupidity might lead to a denial.

THANK GOD I insisted on that call....

[StartingOver08]

I'm glad you called them too. I had a feeling that they were trying to mislead you....if it's not in writing it doesn't exist! Thank goodness you found out in time to get them the payment.

[IBroke]

I'm glad you called them too. I had a feeling that they were trying to mislead you....if it's not in writing it doesn't exist! Thank goodness you found out in time to get them the payment.

Absolutely..I'm 100% sure they WOULDN'T have called us prior to 10/01 to tell us about their little "error". I'd certainly like to know how many people will be kicked out of the HAMP due to their "miscommunication". If I understand correctly, there is no excuse for missing a payment. Missed one - you're out.

This is so ridiculous because it never came to OUR mind that there was no payment due. And if your lender doesn't know what's due....OMG!

Tomorrow, we will send them a CMRRR, asking for the missing documention from THEIR side (signed copy of the trial period plan).

[IBroke]

So we made the second trial period payment on time. That issue is solved (Oh, BTW, did I mention that the representative who was entering our payment-information over the phone told us we needn't make a payment? Hahaha....).

However, today, we sent a QWR by CMRRR to our Lender (SPS), requesting the signed copy of the "HOME AFFORDABLE MODIFICATION TRIAL PERIOD PLAN" by no later than 10/10/2009.

Here's the reason: We are making trial payments for two months now - BUT LEGALLY, WE DON'T HAVE AN AGREEMENT WITH OUR LENDER. To us, that's not acceptable!

Here's what the Plan says:

"I understand that after I sign and return two copies of this Plan to the Lender, the Lender will send me a signed copy of this Plan if I qualify for the Offer or will send me written notice that I do not qualify for the offer. This plan will not take effect unless and until both I and the Lender sign it and Lender provides me with a copy of this Plan with the Lender's signature."

I think lenders are trying to avoid sending out these signed Plans because they pretty much tie them to the program. There are several sections in the Plan, stating that if you make the trial payments on time and your circumstances (Representations) stay as they are, you WILL receive a Modification. But if they don't sign and return that Plan, they aren't bound to the Plan. Only the borrower who signed it and IMO, that's not right at all. We deliver the trial payments and all the documentation required for the HAMP, so they can AT LEAST sign the contract THEY expect US to fulfill.

Now comes the interesting part: Are borrowers actually making trial-payments if they haven't received the signed Plan? I'd say NO because the plan is not in effect. That's why we DEMAND the signed copy.

We don't feel comfortable making Trial Period Payments WITHOUT A LEGALLY EXECUTED AGREEMENT - and that's exactly what we wrote in the QWR to them. Let's see how and if they react.

[StartingOver08]

You are so right - the banks ignore contracts routinely - they ignore dates in contracts, they counteroffer verbally and won't put it in writing, they agree to something unilaterally (you sign/they don't) so they always have an out.

They are so accustomed to not working the right way they don't even remember which way is right! I hope the QWR gets their attention! Good luck.

[willsurvive]

Way to stay on top of them!! I too believe that many many homeowners will be mislead during this "trial" period and then the bank will say, "You missed a payment!". And just because you are the trial period it doesn't guarantee a permanent modification.

What a mess, I wish you the best of luck!

[IBroke]

Way to stay on top of them!! I too believe that many many homeowners will be mislead during this "trial" period and then the bank will say, "You missed a payment!". And just because you are the trial period it doesn't guarantee a permanent modification.

What a mess, I wish you the best of luck!

Thanks!

As I said, they can tell us all they want - we will stick to the payments and due-dates we received in writing - even though the irony is - as I pointed out - that the Plan we are following and fullfilling is NOT a plan as of today since it's not in effect.

So in other words we (and I guess thousands of other homeowners) are making "trial payments" without a legally existing trial period plan. When we called SPS and asked for the signed copy of this plan, they told us they send it to us together with the Modification Agreement (explaining the difference between these two contracts to the customer representatives was everything but easy) either by the end of the month or the beginning of November. Remember, 11/01/2009 is when the FINAL trial period payment is due...Now imagine I would go to my car dealer with the goal to finance a car over 36 months. When it's time to sign the financing agreement, I tell him "Hey, I sign that in 3 years." I'd love to see that guys' face - but esentially, that's what the lenders are doing to us.

You can be sure that we will be fighting for this HAMP-modification like bulldogs.

We won't take "no" for an answer. We meet all the requirements under the HAMP and if we get a signed copy of the agreement (which, IMO, we are entitled by signing and returning it - see the wording above), we will use this Trial Agreement Plan to insist on our Modification. If necessary, we take them to court. BTW, Simply saying "no" won't be an option for the lenders any more. Over the next few days, a new HAMP-law is in effect: If lenders deny a Mod, they have to provide you with a denial-code, stating the reason why you don't qualify. That's a great tool so they can't cherry-pick any longer.

OK, so far they said everything is fine and there was no word we wouldn't get the modification - but you never know...

[IBroke]

Well, look what I found:

http://loanmedicsblog.com/?p=1

That's EXACTLY what I stated before...