Guns!!

[Regrets]

I couldn't find this topic here. We are filing Chapter 7 in California. My husband is a cop. How would we list his guns? Are they Tools of the trade, personal property? Can some be Tools and some be personal property? One is the gun I keep when I am home alone, he carries two duty weapons(one on his belt, and a small one on his ankle), and an off duty weapon. Plus we own a shotgun. This seems like a lot of guns, I know. SO what would you guys think? We are upside down on our house, so no equity AT ALL, one car worth about 2,500, and just regular household stuff besides that. Where would I find the value of a used gun anyway?

[AngelinaCat]

Hi Regrets: The guns your DH carries while on duty, are owned by his Police Department? Yes? No? (Please say yes). If that is the case, then his department owns them , and he does not.

If you don't know, consider the question: "Officer XXXX, due to whatever reason, I am relieving you from duty temporarily. Please turn in your badge and weapon." What would his response be? And I hope and pray he never has to answer a question like that.

On the other guns, we--my 'Hub and I--have some that were mostly inherited from my father. On those, because they were pre-1940, one would think there would be value to them as 'collectibles' or 'antiques'. No.

We learned the hard way, when trying to sell a couple, that unless a Collector comes around and *really* wants them, they have very little value. We were told there are three conditions:
1. a vintage gun with a provable story--i.e. a gun that Custer used at the Battle of the Little Big Horn.
2. a vintage gun with a family legend--unprovable. It might be a nice gun, but the vale to the collector drops like a rock.
3. a nice gun that is much like any other nice gun--so what?

Now, that was with us trying to sell a couple of ours. We also learned that buyers of guns nowadays--unless they are collectors--don't like to mess with the vintage guns, because they can't handle the power of the modern ammunition available.

So, *S*i*g*h*. My 1922 Savage pistol did in a rattlesnake just fine the other day!!

So I suggest going to some gun dealers or ranges in your area and see what they might say. Also check your local pawn shops for prices.

Good luck to you!

[Regrets]

The guns are all our property, payed for out of our pocket, he keeps them if he leaves, but he was required to purchase two of them by his employer. He is given a uniform allowance, which is taxed and included in our income, but the guns legally belong to us and not the department. He does not have a department issued duty weapon. Thanks for the entertaining and helpful response. So are they part of the personal property exemption or the tools of the trade exemption?

[walkthaplank]

I couldn't find this topic here. We are filing Chapter 7 in California. My husband is a cop. How would we list his guns? Are they Tools of the trade, personal property? Can some be Tools and some be personal property? One is the gun I keep when I am home alone, he carries two duty weapons(one on his belt, and a small one on his ankle), and an off duty weapon. Plus we own a shotgun. This seems like a lot of guns, I know. SO what would you guys think? We are upside down on our house, so no equity AT ALL, one car worth about 2,500, and just regular household stuff besides that. Where would I find the value of a used gun anyway?

You should be able to exempt everything under California exemption system 2. You have no equity in your home to exempt so you can use that exemption for any property. Also, don't use the brand new value of the guns, estimate the value based on what you would get at a pawn shop for them.

I have LOTS of guns and I'm in California, the wild card exemption is just based on dollar amounts, not what the item is. BTW, only in California would people consider 5 guns "a lot"

[Regrets]

Thanks. I was hoping that was the answer, thats why I included the upside down on my house information. I agree Californians are a little weird about guns. One time we had a parent ask us if we owned guns before bringing their kid to our house. Ummm.... No, my husband is the only cop in the State with no gun.

[walkthaplank]

Thanks. I was hoping that was the answer, thats why I included the upside down on my house information. I agree Californians are a little weird about guns. One time we had a parent ask us if we owned guns before bringing their kid to our house. Ummm.... No, my husband is the only cop in the State with no gun.

Where people will get into trouble is when they start putting replacement costs on their belongings rather than liquidation sale prices. Basically what you would get at a yard sale or from a pawn shop.

And my response would have been "What kind of people do you think we are?!?!?! Of course we have lots of guns!! Don't worry they're all loaded and in great working order, your child is perfectly safe here!"

I have a California CCW and some of our leftist friends who found out in kind of a roundabout fashion were aghast that I would not only own guns, but be so reckless as to carry a loaded gun in public....

[walkthaplank]

System 2

Personal Property
Burial plot: Up to $20,725 of the unused homestead exemption.
Motor vehicle: up to $3,300.
Furnishings, appliances, household goods, books, musical instruments, clothing, animals, and crops: up to $525 per item.
Jewelry: up to $1,350 total.
Health aids: all.
Recoveries for wrongful death: all necessary for support.
Recoveries for personal injury of the debtor or a person on whom the debtor depends: up to $20,725, not including pain and suffering or pecuniary loss.

Tools of trade such as tools, instruments, and books: up to $2,075 total.

Wildcard: Any property: up to $1,100.
Any property: unused part of homestead or burial exemption up to $20,725

You shouldn't have any problem. Your lawyer will be able to exempt everything unless you are secretly holding the Hope Diamond or something!

[albacore44]

Where people will get into trouble is when they start putting replacement costs on their belongings rather than liquidation sale prices. Basically what you would get at a yard sale or from a pawn shop.

And my response would have been "What kind of people do you think we are?!?!?! Of course we have lots of guns!! Don't worry they're all loaded and in great working order, your child is perfectly safe here!"

I have a California CCW and some of our leftist friends who found out in kind of a roundabout fashion were aghast that I would not only own guns, but be so reckless as to carry a loaded gun in public....

You are very fortunate to have one of those in this state. I would love to have one.

To the original poster, I think you could exempt those under tools of the trade. I have 3, a 9mm, 45, and a 40 cal Sig Saur's My son who is part of my household uses them for armed security work.

[Tbornetun]

They should be listed as tools of the trade. It is the same as my husband who is employed by a regular w-2 employer as a diesel mechanic. He is REQUIRED to have $30,000 in tools to his job.

[Regrets]

OK, so it seems like they won't be prying our guns from our cold dead hands, afterall.

[Blueboy]

You can get good gun appraisals from looking this site:

http://gunbroker.com/

[AngelinaCat]

They should be listed as tools of the trade. It is the same as my husband who is employed by a regular w-2 employer as a diesel mechanic. He is REQUIRED to have $30,000 in tools to his job.

You would think so. But my husband as a Computer Consultant, who should be able to list his three test computers, for clients' machines, as 'tools of the trade' was not able to do so. Florida does not allow 'Tools of the trade', even after our attorney told us it did.

Check YOUR state's exemptions closely.......

S*I*G*H*.............

[Tbornetun]

You would think so. But my husband as a Computer Consultant, who should be able to list his three test computers, for clients' machines, as 'tools of the trade' was not able to do so. Florida does not allow 'Tools of the trade', even after our attorney told us it did.

Check YOUR state's exemptions closely.......

S*I*G*H*.............

I am not filing bankruptcy, I just do it for other people Under tools of trade with federal exemptions, you can exempt anything you use for work. Tools, computers, handguns. I have already decided I don't want to do bankruptcies in Florida (and a few other states), their exemptions suck.

[joab]

In California, if you're using the 703 series of exemptions, you can exempt any work-related firearms as tools of the trade under CCP 703.140(b)(6), up to a total of $2,075. Any amount over the $2,075 tools of trade exemption limit, or firearms for personal use, can be exempted under the "wildcard" provision of 703.140(b)(5).

As previous posters have said, you should use the resale values rather than the replacement values. If you're unsure, it might be worth a phone call to your local gun store to see what they'd pay you for them.

Edited to add: Given that the petition is public record and your spouse is a police officer, you may want to be discreet about how much detail you give regarding the firearms you own. I think you have good security-based grounds to keep the description as generic as possible, unless and until the trustee asks for specifics. I've seen descriptions like "personal firearms collection, total value $1600", and "work-related firearms, total value $1000" listed on petitions without the trustee batting an eye.

[walkthaplank]

On my exemptions they were listed merely as "Firearms" and a dollar amount. It wasn't itemized, even though I gave my lawyer a list of the firearms I had with estimated values.

As to values, I'd avoid places like gunbroker or other auctions, your best bet is pawn shop values. How much would the pawn shop pay you for that gun, that is the true liquidation value.