Property I Don't Possess

[Debster222]

My name is on the deed of a piece of property that someone else resides in. I don't live there and don't use the property for any purpose of my own. The person who owns the house is an old friend of the family who has a lot of health problems and wanted to make sure the property didn't end up in some probate nightmare should he pass on. I really have no rights to this, but I'm not sure how to incorporate it into my chapter 7.

Do I put it on the exemption worksheet and if so, what statute number would I use? I can't really use the homestead exemption, because it's not my homestead.

[AngelinaCat]

Oh, boy......

How is it listed? Is yours the ONLY name on the deed, or is there a joint ownership between you as XXXXX XXXXX and YYYYY YYYYY. If so, what is the legalese that goes along with the names, if any? Is there any language similar to "Joint Tenancy" and / or "Right of Survivorship". I'm in Florida, so whatever familiarity I have with those terms won't necessarily translate to Colorado. We will need to know a little more detail before any of us can advise.

[lrprn]

The fact that you own property (whether you live there or not) that I assume you want to keep may take your bankruptcy filing out of the 'simple, straightforward, ok-to-file-pro-se' column.

This could be a real problem for whoever lives on this property now when you file if you can't protect the value of this property under your state's bankruptcy exemptions. Since you are not living there, you can't use the homestead exemption to protect it either.

You are on the deed - is anyone else? Who is living on the property? Is it improved (in other words, is there a home built on it)? If there is a home, is your name on the home's deed as well? What state do you plan to file in?

[Debster222]

How is it listed? Is yours the ONLY name on the deed, or is there a joint ownership between you as XXXXX XXXXX and YYYYY YYYYY. If so, what is the legalese that goes along with the names, if any? Is there any language similar to "Joint Tenancy" and / or "Right of Survivorship". I'm in Florida, so whatever familiarity I have with those terms won't necessarily translate to Colorado. We will need to know a little more detail before any of us can advise.

No, there are two names. Mine and the gentleman who lives there. The record is here if you want to see.

http://www.co.larimer.co.us/assessor/query/results.cfm

[Debster222]

The fact that you own property (whether you live there or not) that I assume you want to keep may take your bankruptcy filing out of the 'simple, straightforward, ok-to-file-pro-se' column.

This could be a real problem for whoever lives on this property now when you file if you can't protect the value of this property under your state's bankruptcy exemptions. Since you are not living there, you can't use the homestead exemption to protect it either.

You are on the deed - is anyone else? Who is living on the property? Is it improved (in other words, is there a home built on it)? If there is a home, is your name on the home's deed as well? What state do you plan to file in?

My name is on the land only. There is only an old 1969 mobile home on it and there's also a lean against the property for $49,000.00.

[HHM]

The land is still an asset and has value, and your name is on the deed; unless you can exempt it, the trustee has the right to liquidate it. It really is that simple.

[AngelinaCatHub]

My name is on the land only. There is only an old 1969 mobile home on it and there's also a lean against the property for $49,000.00.

My name is on the land only. There is only an old 1969 mobile home on it and there's also a lean against the property for $49,000.00.

Hey, that lien is to your benefit. However, If the man made the Deed P.O.D. (I'm not sure of wording in your state) it may help him. What is the property worth??? If less than the lien, get your name off of it for sure. You just may inherit his problems. 'Hub

[AngelinaCatHub]

P. S.

HHM is right-on. 'Hub

[Debster222]

Hey, that lien is to your benefit. However, If the man made the Deed P.O.D. (I'm not sure of wording in your state) it may help him. What is the property worth??? If less than the lien, get your name off of it for sure. You just may inherit his problems. 'Hub

Not sure what you mean by P.O.D. and also, the lien is actually an equity line of credit that was issued in both of our names that has since been converted to just a standard loan that we're both responsible for. He co-signed for me to get a loan a long time ago to help me out with my business that I used to have. He put that property up as collateral.

Right now, the property isn't worth all that much and the mobile home is isn't worth much either. It's almost 40 years old. As far as value, the only thing I really have to go by is the actual value listed on the Larimer County website, which is less than the loan and I only have to claim half of the interest, if I understand it correctly. The place is in the mountains and there aren't really any comparable properties around us.

[Debster222]

P. S.

HHM is right-on. 'Hub

Even if there's a $49,000.00 loan on it?

[HHM]

Depends on how much the land is worth. If there is no equity, you should be fine.

It will depend on the nature of the lien and when the lien was placed on the land. But, as with any asset in BK, if there is value in the asset, you must find an exemption, or face losing that asset.

[AngelinaCatHub]

P.O.D. Means to pay on death. I used to use this with U.S. savings bonds. They would be in my name POD to my wifes name. That would mean it is my bond only except if I died, it would revert to her.

About the land, did you mention how much of it there is? The lien seems like it would offset the value a lot. As HHM says, it is still an asset, then you list the lien. If it is not worth bothering with, the Trustee can "abandone" it. You might google your county's Property Appraisor's web and look up your lands taxible value. Not usually what the land would sell for, but then check your close by area parcels and see what they are taxed at. Then see what anybody may have sold theirs for. It could give you a thumbnail idea. 'Hub

[Debster222]

P.O.D. Means to pay on death. I used to use this with U.S. savings bonds. They would be in my name POD to my wifes name. That would mean it is my bond only except if I died, it would revert to her.

About the land, did you mention how much of it there is? The lien seems like it would offset the value a lot. As HHM says, it is still an asset, then you list the lien. If it is not worth bothering with, the Trustee can "abandone" it. You might google your county's Property Appraisor's web and look up your lands taxible value. Not usually what the land would sell for, but then check your close by area parcels and see what they are taxed at. Then see what anybody may have sold theirs for. It could give you a thumbnail idea. 'Hub

There's 14 acres of it listed as "MH (mobile home) on vacant land". The county record shows an assessed value and an actual value and that's what I was planning to use. The records shows no sales in the subdivision.

I am listing the asset and the lien, of course and as you said, I think it will offset. Especially since I am only accountable for half, if I'm understanding the rules on this.

[lrprn]

Debster, even though you are planning to file pro se, PLEASE set up 3-4 free initial consultations with experienced bk lawyers in your area to ask about how owning this property as a co-owner will work out in your local court if you file. There's no obligation, and you may save yourself (and the person living on the property) a world of hurt down the road.

We aren't bk lawyers here - you really do need solid legal advice from lawyers familiar with how co-owned property like this is treated by the Ch 7 trustees in your state's local court. What is logical to us often does not work that way at all in the legal bk world.

[fltoo]

You should only use "market value" for a property, improved or not, that is, what a willing and able buyer will pay for the property.

Ask a real estate agent to give you a market value.

Do not use the value of the mobile home unless it is in your name at motor vehicle dept.