Received letter from attorney question about 30 validation

[nogooddebtor]

Hello all!

I have received the first letter from a local attorney about a $1500 +/- debt that I stopped paying about Feb/March 2011. The amount they are stating in their letter is different, not WAY off base from what my last statement says from OC. I have a different amount listed on my CR from Equifax as well.

Anyway, I have received letters from "collection attorneys" in the past, but this one just grates me for some reason. It has been my general experience to avoid ALL communication from everyone trying to collect a debt. My credit is so messed up it is not worth me trying to just settle this one account. I have 5-6 others reporting on me as well.

It appears from my research these attorney are valid and sue regularly on accounts. Letter they sent me was on Novemer 30th, so my debt validation is timeframe is running out. I would rather not communicate with them at all. However, my questions are as follows:

1.) If I do not validate, can I still use in a court hearing that the amount they are saying I owe is not the same and therefore should be dismissed?

2.) Is it a regular occurence that companies sue for <2K? These attorneys apparently do not show up regularly for cases and there has been mention that the defendant gets an automatic dismissal. I admt I do not know very much about court proceedings, so I if I get an automatic dismissal can they turn around and sue me again?

Thanks,
Debtor

[GoingDown]

Hello all!

I have received the first letter from a local attorney about a $1500 +/- debt that I stopped paying about Feb/March 2011. The amount they are stating in their letter is different, not WAY off base from what my last statement says from OC. I have a different amount listed on my CR from Equifax as well.

Anyway, I have received letters from "collection attorneys" in the past, but this one just grates me for some reason. It has been my general experience to avoid ALL communication from everyone trying to collect a debt. My credit is so messed up it is not worth me trying to just settle this one account. I have 5-6 others reporting on me as well.

It appears from my research these attorney are valid and sue regularly on accounts. Letter they sent me was on Novemer 30th, so my debt validation is timeframe is running out. I would rather not communicate with them at all. However, my questions are as follows:

1.) If I do not validate, can I still use in a court hearing that the amount they are saying I owe is not the same and therefore should be dismissed?

2.) Is it a regular occurence that companies sue for <2K? These attorneys apparently do not show up regularly for cases and there has been mention that the defendant gets an automatic dismissal. I admt I do not know very much about court proceedings, so I if I get an automatic dismissal can they turn around and sue me again?

Thanks,
Debtor

If the amount is "not WAY off base from what my last statement says from OC", then it is likely due to interest, late fees, or even collection fees being added to it. Unfortunately, the court probably won't care about this, and you would be unlikely to win against their lawsuit.

Disputing the validity will temporarily stop the telephone calls while they get their information together, but it won't stop a lawsuit from going forward.

They haven't filed the lawsuit yet. What you need to do right now is to determine whether or not you are "judgment proof / collection proof." If you aren't, then you should probably look into whether you should file a Chapter 7 or a Chapter 13 bankruptcy, and whether or not you think your case is simple enough to file it on your own (pro se) or whether you will need a bankruptcy attorney to file your case.

In the meanwhile, read some of the "stickies" threads above to familiar yourself with lawsuits, garnishments, exempt funds, etc. You may find that information helpful.

And yes, it is common for creditors to sue for less than $2000, but keep in mind, they don't sue everyone who defaults on debts. Out of the many, many credit cards I stopped paying in 2004 and 2005, only one ever sue me. They use "collection triggers" and various other things like asset and employment searches to determine whether or not to sue you.

Yes, they can turn around and sue you again, unless it is dismissed with prejudice.

[nogooddebtor]

GoingDown,

Thank you for your prompt reply.

I live in a state where your wages cannot be garnished for unsecured debt. I have a bank account, but rarely keep any balance in there. I have learned to live on a cash system. My spouse is judgement proof. I had hoped to avoid bankruptcy and just suffer through the seven years (or at least get through the SOL), but a judgement is a long thing to keep on you where I live.

I could probably offer a settlement, but I am afraid that more will just hound me if pay one off. I don't really have the money for a BK attorney and don't really have confidence in myself to try BK pro se. I have no interest in credit cards for the rest of my life, so not really interested in rebuilding. However, I don't want to be forced into selling my home as the judgement would last long enough, I'd *eventually* have some equity in my home. Which is probably a moot point by then, as I would hope things would turn around financially and just pay the judgement. I guess I just answered my own question, but really hate having a judgement on my head.

I would really just like to nit pick and sue every agency along this journey who is in clear violation of the FDCPA, but the event that put in this mess to begin has taught me life is short. I am so thankful that we can pay our home, one vehicle and keep on the utilities. One day, things will improve. I am so much more fortunate than some. It just makes me anxious the thought of someone suing me. I never thought I would worth the trouble.

Thanks,
Debtor

[lillymarlene]

Summer of 2010, I had 2 creditors suing me over a couple of my smallest balances. I am self employed, so I had no wages to garnish, and my bank account was tiny. However, I do have a house, and of course they were looking to slap liens on my property. At this time, I had also gone to see a credit counselor, who recommended bankruptcy. She thought that my other creditors would probably follow with lawsuits right after the first two.

Your situation may not be like mine, but if you have other creditors and you own property, you may want to see what a couple of bankruptcy attorneys think about your situation. The first consultation should be free.

[nogooddebtor]

Hello all:

Just another caveat to the whole situation, as I dug out all of my statements and collection agency letters from my files. GoingDown or anyone else, I reverified with my paperwork and the amount they are saying I do owe is accurate by the time I sat down and refigured late fees and interest. HOWEVER, this account was placed with TWO different collection agencies PRIOR to the lawyer's office letter. So here is my question, if the lawyer is stating that he is representing ****, but it had been placed with both CA#1 and THEN CA#2 is the OC really still holding the account? Wouldn't the other agencies technically OWN the account? It just seems confusing to me. On both of the CA letters they are stating I can still make payments with the OC, but wouldn't it still be in ownership of the CA? If I were to have made a payment to the OC, wouldn't the CA still receive a "cut?" I just pulled my CR last week and all three reporting debt as charged off. The only date that I can see it being charged off began Sept 2011. The letter from the attorney was dated Nov 30th, so couldn't I defend that I have no contract with the attorney for this debt or that it is just invalid?

Thanks all for any help.

[GoingDown]

Hello all:

Just another caveat to the whole situation, as I dug out all of my statements and collection agency letters from my files. GoingDown or anyone else, I reverified with my paperwork and the amount they are saying I do owe is accurate by the time I sat down and refigured late fees and interest. HOWEVER, this account was placed with TWO different collection agencies PRIOR to the lawyer's office letter.


This is not unusual. Creditors will often place accounts with different collection agencies. The creditor has the right to bounce the debt around to as many third party collection agencies as it wants. The lawyer's office is usually the last step in the process before a lawsuit.


So here is my question, if the lawyer is stating that he is representing ****, but it had been placed with both CA#1 and THEN CA#2 is the OC really still holding the account?

Who does the lawyer say he is representing? The Original Creditor? Or a Junk Debt Buyer?

The lawyer does NOT represent the third party Collection Agencies. They never own the debt. They just try to collect it for the Original Creditor or for a Junk Debt Buyer.


Wouldn't the other agencies technically OWN the account?

No. The third party Collection Agencies never own the account. They merely work for the Original Creditor or for the Junk Debt Buyer, if your account was sold to a Junk Debt Buyer. You would receive a letter in the mail stating that your account was sold and who it was sold to. Otherwise, it is safe to assume that your account is still held by the Original Creditor.


It just seems confusing to me. On both of the CA letters they are stating I can still make payments with the OC, but wouldn't it still be in ownership of the CA?


If you can still make payments to the Original Creditor, then the Original Creditor still owns it. Remember, the Collection Agency is just an employee of the creditor. They never own the account.




If I were to have made a payment to the OC, wouldn't the CA still receive a "cut?"

Probably. They usually work on contingency for the OC.

I just pulled my CR last week and all three reporting debt as charged off.



Charge Off is merely an accounting move. It doesn't mean that the OC sold the debt.



The only date that I can see it being charged off began Sept 2011. The letter from the attorney was dated Nov 30th, so couldn't I defend that I have no contract with the attorney for this debt or that it is just invalid?

Thanks all for any help.

No. The attorney is merely an employee of the creditor. You won't have any contract with them.

[GoingDown]

GoingDown,

Thank you for your prompt reply.

I live in a state where your wages cannot be garnished for unsecured debt. I have a bank account, but rarely keep any balance in there.

Good, but watch out for any fees your bank might charge you for responding to a garnishment order. I have a friend who only had a $50 balance in his checking account and then a judgment creditor garnished his account and the bank charged him a $175 fee for responding to the garnishment, and then charged him an overdraft fee for the account having a negative balance caused by their own fee.



I have learned to live on a cash system.

Good. You will need these skills to live the judgment proof lifestyle.



My spouse is judgement proof. I had hoped to avoid bankruptcy and just suffer through the seven years (or at least get through the SOL), but a judgement is a long thing to keep on you where I live.

If you are judgment proof, does it really matter?

I could probably offer a settlement, but I am afraid that more will just hound me if pay one off.


Yes, that is what tends to happen, plus you will get hit with a nice big tax bill, as well.


I don't really have the money for a BK attorney and don't really have confidence in myself to try BK pro se.


Read the Nolo book about bankruptcy. It is really a lot easier than you think. This forum has a wealth of information as well.



I have no interest in credit cards for the rest of my life, so not really interested in rebuilding. However, I don't want to be forced into selling my home as the judgement would last long enough, I'd *eventually* have some equity in my home.

In general, they will not (or cannot in some cases) sell your house out from under you for a "non-consensual lien" which is what a judgment lien from a credit card would be considered. But the lien would have to be paid if you ever wanted to sell it, or refinance it. If you don't care about doing any of those things, then it really doesn't matter.


Which is probably a moot point by then, as I would hope things would turn around financially and just pay the judgement. I guess I just answered my own question, but really hate having a judgement on my head.

Hey, I've had a judgment on my head for years, and I don't care about it. They have never received a penny from me, and never will.

I would really just like to nit pick and sue every agency along this journey who is in clear violation of the FDCPA, but the event that put in this mess to begin has taught me life is short. I am so thankful that we can pay our home, one vehicle and keep on the utilities. One day, things will improve. I am so much more fortunate than some. It just makes me anxious the thought of someone suing me. I never thought I would worth the trouble.

Thanks,
Debtor

You're right about that. Life is too short to worry about such things.

[nogooddebtor]

To update:

Got a letter again in the mail. First letter was from Nov 30th. The one I received today was dated 12272011. Interestingly, the one today says that my thirty day window for verification had now passed. Ummmm.....didn't they just break some kind of rule trying to deny me the FULL thirty day opportunity?


On the other note, they go on to say that their client is still willing to work out a payment plan and I must respond in the next ten days as they want to do this amicably. Seems like yet another tactic to get me to pay vs sue me. I can't and won't pay this right now. I would rather save the money for a BK should I need to.

What do you think this new communication is? Wouldn't they have stopped sending additional correspondence if they just wanted to get a judgement?

Thanks,
Debtor

[GoingDown]

If I had a nickle for every letter I received like that... well, I could buy a Big Mac.

It is not unusual to receive multiple letters from them in the early phase of collections. They think it will scare you into paying them.

Just wait for the ominous phone calls with people claiming this is your last chance to resolve this matter voluntarily, and this file is about to leave my office, and I would like you to have one final opportunity to resolve this matter before I am forced to take legal action. Remember, legal action is any action which is not illegal. It generally means nothing at this point.

If and when you start getting letters from a local attorney, or even a local collection agency, then it is getting serious.

[catleg]

The local attorney is probably just acting as a collection agency.
If they thought you were suit-worthy, the typical sequence is: 30 day demand letter, then file lawsuit.
Since they have not done this, chances are you're safe for now.
Small suits can be profitable, but they can also be expensive if they are filed indiscriminately.
They will try to establish if you are employed before filing suit.
Who is the OC? Major national bank?