Judgment coming my way?

[DYLAN150]

I'm in Washington state and they do things a little funny here like being served with a lawsuit but has no number on it. They gave me 20 days to response with my defense in writing. The 20 days were up on 10 Oct however, I sent them a cert. letter asking them to comply with my first letter, request for debt validation.
I also included a declaration of exemptions which shows them that I am collection proof. Basically here is my question, Today is the 17th of October, any idea how long it will be before I get notice of the judgment or will they attempt to validate the debt first?

[GoingDown]

If a lawsuit was actually filed in your court (and they weren't just trying to bluff and scare you with the threat of a lawsuit), then debt validation does absolutely nothing to stop the lawsuit from moving forward and eventually ending up in a default judgment against you.

Debt validation-- disputing the validity of the debt-- is merely an FDCPA rule that stops them from calling you on the telephone while they validate the debt.

If they have moved beyond the point of just making phone calls, and they have actually filed a lawsuit in court, then the only way to slow it down is to file a written answer in court to the lawsuit. Otherwise they will get a default judgment because as far as the court is concerned, you did not respond to the lawsuit.

It sounds like you ran out of time to do this, so I would assume that there is now a default judgment against you. Check with your court to see if this happened.

[tobee43]

yes, i have heard before than many courts or served summons have no numbers on them, yet they are valid.

i would do exactly as goingdown suggests, STALL...answer the summons and that will buy you some time. i would even go to court if i had to and beg the judge and tell him/her you are filing bk ...STALL STALL and more stall!

[DYLAN150]

I know the judgment will be granted sooner or later, but I found this on the net: Copied from Creditinfocenter.com

When a collection agency responds to your request for validation with a summons to appear (meaning they are trying to get a judgment against you)


I've heard from my readers that some collection agencies are starting to respond to validation requests with summons to appear in court. There is precedent which says that a collection agency cannot even file suit against you if they haven't validated the debt within the initial 30 day period. If this happens to you, you may cite the case:

Spears vs. Brennan

The appeals court determined:

"Brennan (plaintiff collection agency attorney) violated 15 U.S.C. § 1692g(b) when he obtained a default judgment against Spears (defendant) after Spears had notified Brennan in writing that the debt was being disputed and before Brennan had mailed verification of the debt to Spears."
This means that you have an absolute defense in court to deny them judgment if they still have not validated the debt. Once you get your FDCPA dispute letter in, the collector cannot even get a judgment until they satisfy the FDCPA law. The appeals court overturned the default summary judgment in part because the collection agency lawyer did not meet the rules of the FDCPA.

This could be grounds for getting a default judgment vacated. It's also another violation of the FDCPA and you can collect $1,000 from them.

[Freddy03]

Yeah I tried to explain this to the judge in my case and it was denied. Is the lawsuit from the OC? If so this won't work b/c they don't have to DV the debt.

[GoingDown]

Yeah I tried to explain this to the judge in my case and it was denied. Is the lawsuit from the OC? If so this won't work b/c they don't have to DV the debt.

That's true. Original Creditors don't have to follow the FDCPA at all.

And from what I have seen in the local courtrooms, judges will pretty much side with a collection attorney over a pro se defendant most of the time, whether it is the OC suing or a Junk Debt Buyer suing. It's not fair and it's not right, but there is a bias against debtors who represent themselves in court. Judges are lawyers themselves.

It's a completely different story with Justices of the Peace. Many of them are not lawyers, and will often want to hear both sides of the story before they make a decision.

[GoingDown]

I know the judgment will be granted sooner or later, but I found this on the net: Copied from Creditinfocenter.com

When a collection agency responds to your request for validation with a summons to appear (meaning they are trying to get a judgment against you)


I've heard from my readers that some collection agencies are starting to respond to validation requests with summons to appear in court. There is precedent which says that a collection agency cannot even file suit against you if they haven't validated the debt within the initial 30 day period. If this happens to you, you may cite the case:

Spears vs. Brennan

The appeals court determined:

"Brennan (plaintiff collection agency attorney) violated 15 U.S.C. § 1692g(b) when he obtained a default judgment against Spears (defendant) after Spears had notified Brennan in writing that the debt was being disputed and before Brennan had mailed verification of the debt to Spears."
This means that you have an absolute defense in court to deny them judgment if they still have not validated the debt. Once you get your FDCPA dispute letter in, the collector cannot even get a judgment until they satisfy the FDCPA law. The appeals court overturned the default summary judgment in part because the collection agency lawyer did not meet the rules of the FDCPA.

This could be grounds for getting a default judgment vacated. It's also another violation of the FDCPA and you can collect $1,000 from them.

And of course, remember all they would have to do in this case is simply send you a piece of paper that says the name of the original creditor and the balance at the time of purchase.

Or simply claim that they did that.

They are not above doing such a thing as that.

[DYLAN150]

GoingDown; What's interesting is Bank Of America who I owe a great deal of money to, does not even call or write in months.

[GoingDown]

The only experience I have had with Bank of America was when they called for info about a dead relative's estate. The caller asked some very specific questions, and when it became clear to him that we were never going to open probate for the insolvent estate and that we were not going to pay any of the deceased relative's bills, they stopped calling us, and then completely gave up and sent in a 1099 form for the estate of the dead person, and sent us a copy of it.

In your case, they probably just put it on the back burner and will wait to see if your circumstances improve. Or they are getting ready to sell it to a junk debt buyer. I noticed that the original creditors for my own accounts fell silent just before they sold off the accounts to junk debt buyers.

[treehugger1]

Goingdown, Wow, you are only a few days away from a join-date 6 years ago! Thanks for all your posts! Looks like you will make it to the new AZ SOLs.

I just went past my 5 year join-date. If I can make it another 12 - 18 months all of my big debts will be SOL. Bank of Am. sold both my debts when they hit the charge-off date. Prior to that, they were bounced around many collection agencies.

Dylan, If I recall correctly, your suit was brought by S&H on behalf of Chiti. These folks got two judgments against me for chiti. Neither chiti nor S&H have acted on the judgments. I did call S&H at one time and let them know I would have permanent 15% wage garnishment. In addition, I have been garnished the remaining 10% for back taxes. I filed a statement showing I have no other non-exempt assets other than wages. I think a couple of things probably happen with this law firm. 1) They are competent. 2) I think they are paid by chiti up-front for filing and representing C in both WA and OR. I can only guess that chiti will simply hang onto the judgment until they think one has acquired assets in the future. If you want to send me a personal message, I can share more of what I know. TH

[GoingDown]

Yeah, I was shocked when Arizona changed the SOL. Before the legislature did that, I was completely beyond the SOL for all of my debts. There was even an Arizona Supreme Court ruling that explicitly said the SOL for credit card debts was 3 years.

I thought that it would awaken the sleeping giants and they would come after me again, but so far, nothing. No phone calls. No letters. No hard or soft pulls on my credit reports.

The last remaining debts will slip under the new SOL very soon. So now, if anyone files a lawsuit against me, I will fight it in court and use the SOL as my defense.

I've heard so many people getting sued for their credit card debts, and I've wondered why out of all my many charged off debts only CapOne sued me. All that I can figure is that the rest of them followed some protocol about making sure the debtor was not judgment proof before they filed any lawsuits. I made it very clear to them in a letter that I had nothing to lose in terms of assets and wages, and that they would be wasting their time on me if they filed a lawsuit. One of them, Wells Fargo, got very close to filing a lawsuit against me back in 2006. They hired a local debt collection attorney/collection agency who did a hard pull on all three of my credit reports, and called my former employers to ask questions about me. They even called my landlord and a relative about me. They must have not liked what they heard about me, because they gave up and ended up never filing a lawsuit against me. They then sold the debt to a junk debt buyer, and it made the rounds of various collection agencies, with me sending them cease and desist letters, until they all finally fell silent and gave up on me.

I think my circumstances are very unique, and most people would probably end up getting sued more than I did. I think having no significant assets, being self-employed (and doing temp jobs) and not using checking accounts, and not opening any new credit accounts etc., has made me very unpalatable for debt collectors. They simply don't want to waste their time on me.

Living the judgment proof lifestyle is certainly not for everyone, but I actually enjoy it. Whenever I feel like it, I can go on vacation to visit relatives in California and Oregon and mooch off of them. I'm not tied down by any job. I'm not stuck with any real estate. If I want to move, I move. Since I no longer use credit for anything, and since I don't use a checking account, and pay for most things with cash, I am very careful about what I buy, and it has forced me to save money. It's the best thing that could have happened to me. I was out of control with credit after I got out of college, and it just wasn't the way to go. Using cash keeps me grounded.

And my credit report will be all clean again in about a year or so. I don't plan on making the same mistakes again, but it will make it easier for me to apply for other jobs that check my credit report.

My guess is that it will be smooth sailing for you from now on. I think once the debts get this old, they rarely file lawsuits over them.

Goingdown, Wow, you are only a few days away from a join-date 6 years ago! Thanks for all your posts! Looks like you will make it to the new AZ SOLs.

I just went past my 5 year join-date. If I can make it another 12 - 18 months all of my big debts will be SOL. Bank of Am. sold both my debts when they hit the charge-off date. Prior to that, they were bounced around many collection agencies.

Dylan, If I recall correctly, your suit was brought by S&H on behalf of Chiti. These folks got two judgments against me for chiti. Neither chiti nor S&H have acted on the judgments. I did call S&H at one time and let them know I would have permanent 15% wage garnishment. In addition, I have been garnished the remaining 10% for back taxes. I filed a statement showing I have no other non-exempt assets other than wages. I think a couple of things probably happen with this law firm. 1) They are competent. 2) I think they are paid by chiti up-front for filing and representing C in both WA and OR. I can only guess that chiti will simply hang onto the judgment until they think one has acquired assets in the future. If you want to send me a personal message, I can share more of what I know. TH

[lotsahats]

I think my circumstances are very unique, and most people would probably end up getting sued more than I did. I think having no significant assets, being self-employed (and doing temp jobs) and not using checking accounts, and not opening any new credit accounts etc., has made me very unpalatable for debt collectors. They simply don't want to waste their time on me.

I'm hoping to employ a similar strategy. I'm a stay-at-home mom, my husband and I don't have any joint debt, and we do not live in a community property state. He was an authorized user on one of my cards, but it was in my name, only. He opened his own checking account, and, as soon as we deplete the funds in our joint one, we'll be closing it. So, I'm basically mooching off my husband. We do jointly own a car together, but I can easily exempt that.

So, the judgement proof lifestyle is working out, for the time being. I'm hoping it will keep collectors at bay, at least until I can afford a bk attorney (and, at the rate I'm going, who knows how long that will be). But, I can't bury my head in the sand, forever. I'm going to have to file for bk sooner or later, because I plan on going back to work as soon as my youngest starts school.

[GoingDown]

I'm hoping to employ a similar strategy. I'm a stay-at-home mom, my husband and I don't have any joint debt, and we do not live in a community property state. He was an authorized user on one of my cards, but it was in my name, only. He opened his own checking account, and, as soon as we deplete the funds in our joint one, we'll be closing it. So, I'm basically mooching off my husband. We do jointly own a car together, but I can easily exempt that.

So, the judgement proof lifestyle is working out, for the time being. I'm hoping it will keep collectors at bay, at least until I can afford a bk attorney (and, at the rate I'm going, who knows how long that will be). But, I can't bury my head in the sand, forever. I'm going to have to file for bk sooner or later, because I plan on going back to work as soon as my youngest starts school.

Have you considered temp jobs? Or starting your own business-- being self-employed? They have a really hard time garnishing wages from these sources.

I do a lot of what most people would consider "crappy jobs", but they are easy and they pay okay. And in today's world, no jobs are really permanent anyways. By the time a judgment creditor found out about them, I don't work there anymore, so there's nothing to garnish.

And whenever I feel like going on vacation-- POOF-- I'm gone!

[bellessima]

Chase NCI collections

Yeah, I was shocked when Arizona changed the SOL. Before the legislature did that, I was completely beyond the SOL for all of my debts. There was even an Arizona Supreme Court ruling that explicitly said the SOL for credit card debts was 3 years.

I thought that it would awaken the sleeping giants and they would come after me again, but so far, nothing. No phone calls. No letters. No hard or soft pulls on my credit reports.

The last remaining debts will slip under the new SOL very soon. So now, if anyone files a lawsuit against me, I will fight it in court and use the SOL as my defense.

I've heard so many people getting sued for their credit card debts, and I've wondered why out of all my many charged off debts only CapOne sued me. All that I can figure is that the rest of them followed some protocol about making sure the debtor was not judgment proof before they filed any lawsuits. I made it very clear to them in a letter that I had nothing to lose in terms of assets and wages, and that they would be wasting their time on me if they filed a lawsuit. One of them, Wells Fargo, got very close to filing a lawsuit against me back in 2006. They hired a local debt collection attorney/collection agency who did a hard pull on all three of my credit reports, and called my former employers to ask questions about me. They even called my landlord and a relative about me. They must have not liked what they heard about me, because they gave up and ended up never filing a lawsuit against me. They then sold the debt to a junk debt buyer, and it made the rounds of various collection agencies, with me sending them cease and desist letters, until they all finally fell silent and gave up on me.

I think my circumstances are very unique, and most people would probably end up getting sued more than I did. I think having no significant assets, being self-employed (and doing temp jobs) and not using checking accounts, and not opening any new credit accounts etc., has made me very unpalatable for debt collectors. They simply don't want to waste their time on me.

Living the judgment proof lifestyle is certainly not for everyone, but I actually enjoy it. Whenever I feel like it, I can go on vacation to visit relatives in California and Oregon and mooch off of them. I'm not tied down by any job. I'm not stuck with any real estate. If I want to move, I move. Since I no longer use credit for anything, and since I don't use a checking account, and pay for most things with cash, I am very careful about what I buy, and it has forced me to save money. It's the best thing that could have happened to me. I was out of control with credit after I got out of college, and it just wasn't the way to go. Using cash keeps me grounded.

And my credit report will be all clean again in about a year or so. I don't plan on making the same mistakes again, but it will make it easier for me to apply for other jobs that check my credit report.

My guess is that it will be smooth sailing for you from now on. I think once the debts get this old, they rarely file lawsuits over them.

I just returned to work in AZ and NCI called my place of business and wants to serve me. I do not have any assets just my salary. Any advise as how to respond to the 20 day ?
Thanks

[GoingDown]

I just returned to work in AZ and NCI called my place of business and wants to serve me. I do not have any assets just my salary. Any advise as how to respond to the 20 day ?
Thanks

Arizona law provides an exemption from wage garnishment for very low wage earners...

http://www.dianedrain.com/Bankruptcy/BankruptcyArticles/Articles/ArizonaExemptions/bkarizonaexemptions.htm

"Net disposable earnings, includes bonuses and commissions (less deductions required by law) includes pension and retirements payment.

75% or 30 X the federal minimum hourly wage, per week, whichever is greater. Does not apply to child support obligations.

A.R.S. § 33-1131"

So, in other words, if your wages are less than 30 times the federal minimum wage per week, then they are fully exempt from garnishment, but anything above that, can be garnished. If you work part-time at minimum wage, you might be safe from garnishment.

If not, brace for impact from wage garnishment.

If you want to thwart them, you will have work at temp jobs, changing employers frequently, or become self-employed, and don't have any inventory-- let Home Depot and Lowes store your inventory.


Keep in mind that any money you have in a checking account is no longer safe. You are better off cashing your paychecks, and using cash and money orders to pay for everything from now until you can file bankruptcy.

Responding to a lawsuit may buy you some time, but if you really owe it, you will probably end up losing the lawsuit in the end. Now may be a good time to consider whether or not you really need to file bankruptcy, and if so, then file it and notify the court before they get a judgment against you.

As for them calling you at work, I would send them a cease and desist communications letter immediately to get them to stop calling you.