The original credit card application and court

[DYLAN150]

Found this written by Todd Murray, Dec 1, 2010:

You don’t have a signed contractSomewhat surprisingly, creditors are not required to produce a signed contract to prevail in court. There are others case theories, such as account stated, that may allow the creditor to win without the contract. In my years as a debt collector, there were only a handful of accounts, out of thousands, for which the creditor was able to produce a signed contract.

[justbroke]

Almost everything is done electronically these days. Very few "paper" applications. You must also consider that when a card is issued, it comes in a very stuffed envelope with terms and conditions, rates, disclosures. The card itself reads that upon using the card, you agree to the terms. Pretty hard to claim that you're not responsible.

[omh2010]

I read an article a few weeks ago in the Washington Post that in Maryland debt collectors will have to show more proof than just your name and credit card company they bought the debt from before getting a judgment. I can't link yet, but it was in the business section. I don't know what effect this will have, but it seems like it will be helpful to consumers.

[frogger]

I don't know what effect this will have, but it seems like it will be helpful to consumers.

Helpful to consumers? Don't count on it. The politicians & judicial system are bought and paid for...

[DYLAN150]

Basically, then it might not even be an issue if the person over stated their income on a credit card application years ago. No one is looking at the application right?

[frogger]

Basically, then it might not even be an issue if the person over stated their income on a credit card application years ago. No one is looking at the application right?

Perhaps a better question is:

"Has anyone ever filled out a credit card application and NOT overstated their income?

[DYLAN150]

frogger: Your right! Or at least round up to the next thousand or so.

[justbroke]

"Has anyone ever filled out a credit card application and NOT overstated their income?

Yes. Well, there is at least one yes. I have actually understated my income because my bonuses are not guaranteeed.

[DYLAN150]

JustBroke: Years ago when I filled out the credit card applications on line, asked: "What is your Annual Household income". Well, this could be answered in several ways. You and your wife/husband, girl friend etc. It didn't define household as I recall. I understand this question is now being change or has been change.

Just looked up a few credit card applications and the wording currently is "what is your gross annual income".

[justbroke]

My income was always the same as the "household" income. I think what we can learn from this is that Banks invited people to inflate their income by including "earnings" that may or may not have been attachable, should the creditor file a collection lawsuit at some point.

American Express was the only company to "verify" my income through an IRS 4506-T! But that was when I was spending $100K/year on my (non-revolving) charge card. It is so simple for the Banks to take a "reasonable" look at a person's financial status. Typically, the amount and types of credit along with payment history, can give an astute financial institution a range of what the person's income might be! Combine that with census data on average household incomes for that particular zip code and address... voila.

The banks never wanted to "really" know.

[Freddy03]

My income was always the same as the "household" income. I think what we can learn from this is that Banks invited people to inflate their income by including "earnings" that may or may not have been attachable, should the creditor file a collection lawsuit at some point.

American Express was the only company to "verify" my income through an IRS 4506-T! But that was when I was spending $100K/year on my (non-revolving) charge card. It is so simple for the Banks to take a "reasonable" look at a person's financial status. Typically, the amount and types of credit along with payment history, can give an astute financial institution a range of what the person's income might be! Combine that with census data on average household incomes for that particular zip code and address... voila.

The banks never wanted to "really" know.

Just like the bank never questioned the home appraiser when he said my house was worth $265K one year after I built it for $90K....lol