A "collection" of Collections Questions

[HTX]

After spending all day researching this excellent site's forums, I have some questions remaining and I apologize if there seems like (there is) a lot of questions. It's just stuff I need to know in order to move forward. If you would, please use the same numbering so I can follow your answers. Except for the first and maybe one other, they're all collections-related. Thanks for your thoughts and guidance. It means so much.

1. Are you allowed to continue your business if it's a sole prop after the bk? If so, what are the requirements? I was unable to find any information on this.

COLLECTIONS Q's:

2. Is it the 60-90d discharge letter that marks the time the credit bureaus are notified? If not, when do they get notified?

3. If you don't file bk, and you have a home-based sole prop biz out of your apartment, what can happen? Can a marshall just barge in and take what you have or take an assessment of what you have....or how does all that work? Can they post a letter on your apartment door that says "Business foreclosure or Business for sale"? If there’s a really-good link that concisely explains this process, that would also be excellent.

4. Assuming you don’t have your “affairs in order”, and may not until another year or two, what’s the best way to survive the intervening year or two of hell? It's a single creditor from a civil suit that involves my florist business.

5. How likely are they to repossess or take your spouses car even if he wasn’t named in the suit and won’t be filing bk with you….if the car’s in my name “but” he needs it to get to work (he drives about 2h a day)? How does this usually play out? (thanks)

6. I understand that, the creditors basically use your SS# (or possibly just your name and address or name and DOB) from your bk filing in order to find your bank accounts. What is the "best” and “latest” system that collection agencies are currently using to locate these bank accounts? I’m guessing it’s some sort of software linked to the abundant available databases? For example, is it one big portal that all the banks participate in? ...or does the collx agency just send out a mass-mailing to every bank in your city? state? country? Given your experience what’s the “luckiest place” (&/or type) for an account to be that are generally hardest to find? (I know anything can be found eventually--just wondering what's the toughest ones or usually take a lot longer than the rest (thanks)).

7. Assuming I’m not in ChexSystems (C/S) and have not fallen behind on any payments, (civil judgment), what’s being used besides (?) the credit bureaus and (C/S) to locate accounts prior to bk?

8. Realistically, what percent of the time (approx) do collectors come after your spouse? (because in marriage you apparently split the debt too)

9. Since bk is public record, if you don't want your SS# part of public record, are you allowed to redact all but the last 4? If so...how soon after your filing can redaction be done?

10. Every time the agency gets a court order to levy, do you (and is it the law that you must) receive a NOTICE in advance of that levy attempt … or do they just sweep the account? How often can they sweep it given a single order? And how frequently can they go back for more orders?
Thank you.

[free2breathe]

I'm not sure what you are asking in question 2. Are you asking when the credit bureau is notified that you filed bankruptcy? That is reported immediately in the public records section of your credit reports. Then, once the discharge is granted (usually 60 days after the 341 meeting) the discharge is reported, I believe.

Question 4 - two years is a lot of time to try to deal with a collection situation. You can pull your money from bank accounts and have your employer direct deposit to something like a Walmart money card instead. you can use something like Google Voice to filter calls.
Question 5 - If you are filing bk, the car can be exempted up to the value your state's exemptions allow. They don't really care who is using it and what for.
Question 6 - If you file bankruptcy and have an automatic stay, the collectors are prohibited from trying to collect from you as long as that stay is in effect. If your debts are successfully discharged, it becomes a permanent injunction....they can no longer attempt to collect those debts. If a judgment is granted against you prior to filing bankruptcy, that debt can be included in your bankruptcy and discharged, but the judgment then has to be vacated (fairly simple once you've been discharged. You just file a motion to vacate with the court who granted the judgment.)
Question 9 - you are required to redact to the last 4 digits of your social on the petition. You file a separate statement of social security number in the official paperwork, but the redacted number is what shows on public record.
Question 10 - if they receive a judgment against you, they then go for the permission to garnish or levy. They can continue to garnish as many times as necessary until the judgment is satisfied, I believe. However, I am not aware of any state that allows more than one entity to garnish at a time. It's basically a "get in line" situation.



I can't answer all your questions, and I can only muddle through the rest...it's late and I hope I haven't rambled too much ;)

[HTX]

Thanks for #2 & #9. Still needing the rest, but thanks again.

Thanks for your efforts. I know you were tired when you wrote your answers, but thanks all the same. Actually you answered #2 & #9 it looks like.

Looking forward to additional answers to my questions, and thanks too.

[HTX]

Still awaiting answers, thank you.

I also have 1 more question: If I keep a small safe (for our important documents like birth and wedding certificates), can the sheriff/marshall seize that little safe?....or do does it have to be specified in the court order as an item to seize? And, can they force me to open it in front of them--I guess like a common thief would?). Let me know! Thanks.

[frogger]

1. Are you allowed to continue your business if it's a sole prop after the bk? If so, what are the requirements? I was unable to find any information on this.

Yes

3. If you don't file bk, and you have a home-based sole prop biz out of your apartment, what can happen? Can a marshall just barge in and take what you have or take an assessment of what you have....or how does all that work? Can they post a letter on your apartment door that says "Business foreclosure or Business for sale"? If there’s a really-good link that concisely explains this process, that would also be excellent.

No, they can't just "barge" in and do anything. Everything takes a court order. Keep in mind, the marshalls or the sheriffs do not want your personal property. The really don't want anything because they must store it until auction. Most of the sheriffs are also elected officials, so they are concerned about you being a voter too. They won't be posting anything on your door that does not come from the courts.

4. Assuming you don’t have your “affairs in order”, and may not until another year or two, what’s the best way to survive the intervening year or two of hell? It's a single creditor from a civil suit that involves my florist business.

Just deal with it. One creditor with a civil suit does not justify a "year or two of hell". Compared to what most of us have had to deal with, one creditor would be a walk in the park.

5. How likely are they to repossess or take your spouses car even if he wasn’t named in the suit and won’t be filing bk with you….if the car’s in my name “but” he needs it to get to work (he drives about 2h a day)? How does this usually play out? (thanks)

If the car is in your name, then it is your car. Why should the courts care if he "needs" your car. He can buy his own.

6. I understand that, the creditors basically use your SS# (or possibly just your name and address or name and DOB) from your bk filing in order to find your bank accounts. What is the "best” and “latest” system that collection agencies are currently using to locate these bank accounts? I’m guessing it’s some sort of software linked to the abundant available databases? For example, is it one big portal that all the banks participate in? ...or does the collx agency just send out a mass-mailing to every bank in your city? state? country? Given your experience what’s the “luckiest place” (&/or type) for an account to be that are generally hardest to find? (I know anything can be found eventually--just wondering what's the toughest ones or usually take a lot longer than the rest (thanks)).

One creditor armed with your ssn is not a big threat. If it is turned over to a collection agency, then the tools are available for them to find your banking information. Mass mailings don't occur, the databases are just checked. This is all a subscription type service that is only available to legit collection agencies. Your one creditor does not and will not have access to this info.

7. Assuming I’m not in ChexSystems (C/S) and have not fallen behind on any payments, (civil judgment), what’s being used besides (?) the credit bureaus and (C/S) to locate accounts prior to bk?

You are in Chexsys if you have a checking account. As to other means to locate your bank accounts? Anyone that you pay with a check has this information.

8. Realistically, what percent of the time (approx) do collectors come after your spouse? (because in marriage you apparently split the debt too)

Not necessarily. It depends on who guaranteed the debt, who signed for it, etc.

9. Since bk is public record, if you don't want your SS# part of public record, are you allowed to redact all but the last 4? If so...how soon after your filing can redaction be done?

Your full ssn will not be available to the general public.

10. Every time the agency gets a court order to levy, do you (and is it the law that you must) receive a NOTICE in advance of that levy attempt … or do they just sweep the account? How often can they sweep it given a single order? And how frequently can they go back for more orders?
Thank you.

You will not get a notice in advance. Your account is frozen by the bank for a period of 30 days, during which all of your outstanding checks will bounce and your debit cards won't work. They can go back every time that they want to pay the filing fee to have your account seized again.

[HTX]

Hey Frogger!

Nice job. THANKS, and thanks esp for the dose of reality.

Qi: Have you heard of something like "you have to have liability insurance" if you file ch 7 but plan to continue your business?

Qii: Also, that makes me think of another question I've had for a while: If you DO just that (file Ch7 (as opposed to 11 or 13) and then continue your same business), doesn't the original civil adversary (now your creditor) come after you saying "Hey, that's a REFORMATION!" or something like that? I always wondered.

I know you might have meant it with a touch of irony, but I still want to clarify this one if I may: You said "If the car is in your name, then it is your car. Why should the courts care if he "needs" your car. He can buy his own." My understanding is that you meant "the court's don't care who drives it as long as its your property and they can claim it".

Qiii: But...what if I can make it a point in the 321 to tell them my hubby was new here and had no credit built up yet. And I was his only hope for a car. Isn't it conceivable that they'll have an ounce of heart or that some legal argument can be made for him to be able to keep his car? He's paid I think now over 20,000 into it, and it will be a cruel blow to him (after building up his credit pmt-by-pmt like I told him to) to have his car (it's not really mine) wretched from him like that. Your thoughts, thanks.

Qiv: You said "They can go back every time that they want to pay the filing fee to have your account seized again." Roughly (eg your state), how much is the fee typically? (I'm trying to think too what it would be worth for them each time etc).

Qv: I had one last question that may have gotten lost in the shuffle. It's a big concern:

If I keep a small safe (for our important documents like birth and wedding certificates and some cash to get us through the week), can the sheriff/marshall seize that little safe?....or do does it have to be specified in the court order as an item to seize? And, can they force me to open it in front of them--I guess like a common thief would?).

Thanks again for your help. It's really appreciated and I know it will help a lot more people than just me and my hub.

[debee]

Question 5 - If you are filing bk, the car can be exempted up to the value your state's exemptions allow. They don't really care who is using it and what for.

If the car is in your name, then it is your car. Why should the courts care if he "needs" your car. He can buy his own.

OP - As the others have stated above, the asset is in your name so the trustee can sell it (except for the amount you can exempt as f2B said in her post above). You may have a story about what you need or about how sad your husband will be to lose his car, but your creditor has a story too. The trustee's job is to get what she can from you and distribute it to your creditor.

edit: please refrain from "grading" this post.

[free2breathe]

Thanks for your efforts. I know you were tired when you wrote your answers, but thanks all the same. Actually you answered #2 & #9 it looks like.

Looking forward to additional answers to my questions, and thanks too.

Hmm, actually I gave you valid answers for more than just 2 and 9, but you seem to be wanting specific answers that people here are not going to be able to give you. In other words, you are wanting someone to tell you that you can have your cake and eat it too, but bankruptcy just doesn't really work that way.

Perhaps you would benefit with a couple free attorney consults, because they will be equipped to answer your questions more concisely as they pertain to the local rules and exemptions of your state. And the best part is, a free consult doesn't obligate you to hire them. Find one you feel really comfortable with and go from there.

[debee]

Qiii: But...what if I can make it a point in the 321 ... .

I think you mean the 341. eta: The 341, aka "Meeting of Creditors" isn't designed for your benefit. It's for your creditor's benefit. The trustee will do his job which is not to take pity on you and take money from your creditor's pocket and put it in yours, but to take whatever of your assets he can in order to give them to your creditor.

If I keep a small safe (for our important documents like birth and wedding certificates and some cash to get us through the week), can the sheriff/marshall seize that little safe?....or do does it have to be specified in the court order as an item to seize? And, can they force me to open it in front of them--I guess like a common thief would?).

If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about.

edit: please refrain from grading this post too.

[free2breathe]

As far as the small safe goes, the only thing I see that has any bearing on a bankruptcy is the cash on hand. Money, whether it is in a bank account or your pocket or under your mattress at the time of filing is an asset of the bankruptcy estate. You want to be honest about what you've got for sure.

[WhatMoney]

Qiv: You said "They can go back every time that they want to pay the filing fee to have your account seized again." Roughly (eg your state), how much is the fee typically? (I'm trying to think too what it would be worth for them each time etc).

Qv: I had one last question that may have gotten lost in the shuffle. It's a big concern:

If I keep a small safe (for our important documents like birth and wedding certificates and some cash to get us through the week), can the sheriff/marshall seize that little safe?....or do does it have to be specified in the court order as an item to seize? And, can they force me to open it in front of them--I guess like a common thief would?).

You can find the court fees for CA Superior court using Google. Here is one list of court fees.
http://www.sccsuperiorcourt.org/fees.htm

Filing for a writ of garnishment is $25. The process server and bank may charge small fees also. You can find those fees in your bank account agreement (under "search fees"), and the sheriff's summons process fee on your county sheriff's website. Any fees paid by the collector in a garnishment can be added to your debt due, so if they can collect from you they don't really care how much it costs them.

You need to look up the list of CA exemptions that apply to your case. There are two levels of asset exemption in CA, depending on your home ownership status. Most of the personal items you are wondering about may be exempt. A judgment holder goes after your assets in this order: Wage garnishment, bank accounts, real property like your auto, and then your "stuff". They never want your stuff unless it is really valuable (like a gold coin collection or a Rembrandt), and it still must be over the exemption amounts allowed. This applies whether it is the BK Trustee or a judgment debtor seizing your assets.

If you declare to the Trustee or the judgment holder during an asset exam that you have a safe in your home with $5,000 cash and $10,000 in stock and bond certificates, well of course they will go after it unless those amounts are exempt. Use your common sense.

[HTX]

Feedback and thanks here

WhatMoney--You really rock. Love your answers. You never add salt to the wounds. Pretty classy...and informative. Thanks. Also my thanks to F2B, I certainly appreciate your efforts. Hey, you were the first to respond! Awesome. Thanks again. "And, while we're here, I'd like to extend warm thanks to my agents, my writers, my mailman, Hot Body Records, and big ups to the man in the sky." ...ok that last part was just for fun. ;) Why does everything here keep saying "don't grade the answers"? are we teachers grading homework? Feels like don't feed the fish....but maybe I'm just feeling humorous today. If it's feedback we shouldn't be giving, hmm, not sure if I believe in that. I like to let people know my appreciation. Maybe it's something totally different. Anyway, peace out and til we meet again.

[HTX]

I guess I was so busy giving props and recognizition that I didn't notice that 2 of my own questions remain unanswered if y'all wouldn't mind giving'em your best:

Qi: Have you heard of something like "you have to have liability insurance" if you file ch 7 but plan to continue your business?

Qii: Also, that makes me think of another question I've had for a while: If you DO just that (file Ch7 (as opposed to 11 or 13) and then continue your same business), doesn't the original civil adversary (now your creditor) come after you saying "Hey, that's a REFORMATION!" or something like that? I always wondered.

big tanks

[debee]

Why does everything here keep saying "don't grade the answers"?

It's one thing to thank those people whose answers you find helpful. But quite another to critique the ones you don't think pass muster. I know you're going through a difficult time. We all have. Some of us are still going through it. And yet taking the time to help others.

F2B went to a lot of trouble to answer your first novel, I mean, post. Did you read your response to her? Because that's what I was aiming at when I asked you not to grade mine.

People are here to help. If you think an answer is lame, you don't have to say so. In fact, more people may actually help you if you don't.

[frogger]

People are here to help. If you think an answer is lame, you don't have to say so. In fact, more people may actually help you if you don't.

Take what advice you want and ignore what you don't want. What is useful to you may be worthless to others and visa-versa.

Anyone that takes the time to post is trying to help.