Threats from gym over membership

[empowered]

Back in July or thereabouts, I finally managed to go to my gym, after having made periodic calls on the matter over the last month or so, to submit the paperwork to suspend my membership. I understood that the suspension process was used to halt payments without canceling.

If it was in July, it was before I filed. At any rate, any part of the debt that I could not afford to pay by should have been incurred before my Chapter 7 filing date. I assured the manager that I talked to at the gym that I'd catch up and restart the membership as soon as I was working again.

I did not name them as a creditor and did not tell them that I was filing Chapter 7. I told them I liked the facility and just couldn't afford it until I went back to work.

They apparently didn't suspend the membership or their wires were crossed from onsite management to accounting or something.

Anyway, today I received mail threatening a judgment, saying that they have had their attempts at automatic debit on a card refused every month and have incurred a charge each time (obviously something that they would like me to pay for though I'm hoping it's bullshit). They said they can't reach me or don't have my address, though I fully filled in the form used to suspend membership and would certainly have added updated information if the form required it. As it was, I kept my membership going for months without using it before I finally filed the suspension request and I hoped they'd appreciate that.

If they insist that they didn't receive the request to suspend membership or otherwise insist that I owe them for the months after I requested the suspension, I'm not sure what to tell them. I did talk to the manager of the gym on the phone and believe that I also e-mailed once or twice so there should be evidence of my intentions even if they lost or trashed the request to suspend.

Can someone inform me what the disposition of any debt would be with them since they were not in the creditor's matrix? It looks like they would demand money not only for the amount I owed when I requested the suspension of my membership before the filing, but since -- another three or four months. Even though I liked this gym more than any other I've used, incompetent accounting tends to leave a bad taste in my mouth, especially when you add threats into the mix. Is a judgment even a possibility for amounts incurred over the last months and before my discharge?

I did not intend to bring them into the bankruptcy and am not particularly eager to proclaim my bankruptcy to them but do want to know what the law says on such a matter.

Thanks.

[espo1357]

Back in July or thereabouts, I finally managed to go to my gym, after having made periodic calls on the matter over the last month or so, to submit the paperwork to suspend my membership. I understood that the suspension process was used to halt payments without canceling.

If it was in July, it was before I filed. At any rate, any part of the debt that I could not afford to pay by should have been incurred before my Chapter 7 filing date. I assured the manager that I talked to at the gym that I'd catch up and restart the membership as soon as I was working again.

I did not name them as a creditor and did not tell them that I was filing Chapter 7. I told them I liked the facility and just couldn't afford it until I went back to work.

They apparently didn't suspend the membership or their wires were crossed from onsite management to accounting or something.

Anyway, today I received mail threatening a judgment, saying that they have had their attempts at automatic debit on a card refused every month and have incurred a charge each time (obviously something that they would like me to pay for though I'm hoping it's bullshit). They said they can't reach me or don't have my address, though I fully filled in the form used to suspend membership and would certainly have added updated information if the form required it. As it was, I kept my membership going for months without using it before I finally filed the suspension request and I hoped they'd appreciate that.

If they insist that they didn't receive the request to suspend membership or otherwise insist that I owe them for the months after I requested the suspension, I'm not sure what to tell them. I did talk to the manager of the gym on the phone and believe that I also e-mailed once or twice so there should be evidence of my intentions even if they lost or trashed the request to suspend.

Can someone inform me what the disposition of any debt would be with them since they were not in the creditor's matrix? It looks like they would demand money not only for the amount I owed when I requested the suspension of my membership before the filing, but since -- another three or four months. Even though I liked this gym more than any other I've used, incompetent accounting tends to leave a bad taste in my mouth, especially when you add threats into the mix. Is a judgment even a possibility for amounts incurred over the last months and before my discharge?

I did not intend to bring them into the bankruptcy and am not particularly eager to proclaim my bankruptcy to them but do want to know what the law says on such a matter.

Thanks.

A. Change your bank account if you have to

B. They are not likely to do anything to you, other than report it to your credit. It makes absolutely no business sense for them to come after you.

C. Just pay the 100 bill or whatever. Its not a big deal, is it?

D. If you file for BK, list ALL your creditors.

E. Call your attorney

F. Good luck

[free2breathe]

If your dates in your signature are accurate, is it safe to assume you have not had debts discharged yet? Why not file an amendment with the bk court for your Schedule F and creditor matrix? You would have to pay the filing fee, and you would need to check with your local bk clerk to find out if there are any particular local forms/procedures to follow. But it seems to me that would be your best practice/protection in that situation.

[espo1357]

Ya, you can just add it to the matrix.

I had a student loan debt that was not added, and then when they billed me, I just called my attorney and they added it.

[empowered]

It's actually going on $500 they're trying to get out me -- hardly insignificant, especially for someone who has been out of work for 8 months. I certainly can't settle up with them in the five days listed in their demand, even if I decided to cave in and let them screw me.

They don't have an up-to-date credit card number for me since, because I was suspending the membership, I was waiting until I continued it to give them the latest one. So there's no need to change any bank account numbers.

I am pro se. That is why I'm asking here.

If some part of this balance they claim I owe is not automatically included in any discharge despite the fact that I didn't name them as a credit, then it will hamper my beginning to rebuild credit. Of course I'm concerned about any sums that they can claim as owing that are not considered part of a discharge. I used to have good credit and will work to improve it again.

I asked about something similar before but it was not a debt that was supposedly accrued over the period of the bankruptcy, before filing, before and after 341 and so on. But I thought that debt before the filing was included; debt after was not. I'm not sure how this might change for a recurring and unsuccessful attempt at a debit.

If anyone has the low-down on this, I'd appreciate knowing. I can write them and attempt to straighten them out on the form I filed to suspend the membership and go from there, but I would like to know where I stand legally vis-a-vis the bankruptcy since, in my experience, small companies often have nasty accounting folks who are loathe to admit error.

Thanks.

[free2breathe]

Generally if a pre-bankruptcy debt is not included on your schedule F, and you are a no asset chapter 7, that debt is discharged with the rest of the unsecured debt. The reasoning behind that is that the bankruptcy courts generally rule that even if the debt had been included in the original filing, there would have been no assets to distribute anyway. You can do a search on this subject and find many posts on this forum regarding pre-bk debt.

Look for posts by tcreegan, he explains it very well

[empowered]

If your dates in your signature are accurate, is it safe to assume you have not had debts discharged yet? Why not file an amendment with the bk court for your Schedule F and creditor matrix? You would have to pay the filing fee, and you would need to check with your local bk clerk to find out if there are any particular local forms/procedures to follow. But it seems to me that would be your best practice/protection in that situation.

Hi free2breathe.

My discharge is less than two weeks away. Aren't there noticing requirements for any additions to the matrix?

I also did think I'd heard here that a discharge includes all debts for a period up to filing or up to 341 or about there, regardless of whether the creditor got onto the matrix though I'm finding myself confused about how that would work in this case.

Thanks.

[free2breathe]

You can amend schedules as long as your case is still open. This is what I found in my district's local rules:

(C) Notice. Within seven (7) days of filing an amendment which adds a
creditor by amendment, the filer must serve the added creditor with each notice that
has previously been served on all creditors in the case and shall file a certificate
showing service in compliance with this rule.

You would need to check your own local rules to see what they say.

empowered, you can also let the gym know you have filed bankruptcy and give them your case number. That should stop them taking further action. I would go ahead and file the amendment, pay the $26 filing fee, and add them just to be safe. Then you notify them by sending them a copy of the notice that the bk court sent out to your other creditors, return receipt requested, so they can't come back later and say they weren't notified. Just my humble opinion ;)

[catleg]

If you can void the gym contract as of your filing date, there will be no debt to collect.
Amend your filing to list the gym membership as an executory contract.

[AngelinaCatHub]

If you can void the gym contract as of your filing date, there will be no debt to collect.
Amend your filing to list the gym membership as an executory contract.

Yes, you as pro se' should have listed ALL expenses you had or have. A forgotten one you must list just for CYA, cost is 26 bucks. Send those people a certified green carded letter and it would not hurt to CC copy to the Trustee as well. You don't want to be looked at as not up front. Even if it were to cost you another 30 days, you would be better off.

And yes, as a no asset it would be discharged, but do you wish to take a chance? Do the right thing. 'Hub

[doni49]

You didn't want to include them in the BK. If they don't know about the BK, they can't be expected to just write off the balance owed. As far as they know, you still owe it. Until they KNOW about the BK, why would they stop trying to collect? Now the portion AFTER you requested the suspension is another issue entirely.

[empowered]

catleg, the tactic you mentioned, amending the bankruptcy to include them might be the best thing to do if they fail to honor the request to suspend that they insisted I submit.

doni49, one of the things I was trying to determine is how the bankruptcy affects any amounts that they insist I owe if they fail to honor their own process of requiring a request to suspend, something I gave them after I took the responsibility of emailing and calling them to see what my options were. It was never my goal to walk away from any legitimate debt. I had hoped that was clear from my original post.

AngelinaCat, yes, I am a no asset Chapter 7. So then all debt incurred before filing is discharged -- I think that's the way it goes? Or is it the 341? I'll review a post that Tom in Colorado wrote to me on another issue for that. Anyway, I wanted to clarify whether a contract signed before the filing was wholly discharged, including any amounts they might claim I owe after I attempted to "do the right thing" and submit the suspension form they requested. I did list the cost of the gym in my expenses in the bankruptcy paperwork even though I did not list them in the matrix. There were no questions at the time.

free2breathe, if I interpret this correctly, I should be able to amend even after discharge so long as the amendment is made before my case is closed about six months after filing. Of course, I will double-check local rules, but is this what you were saying?

I started a new job in the last week with a looming deadline and wanted to research how to approach this gym membership issue so I haven't done anything on it so far. My intention is to write them a letter and point out the fact that they should have suspended my membership in July based on my request and that they had no legal right to continue to attempt to withdraw installments from my bank after that time. I want to see if they acknowledge the suspension before I have to challenge the entire debt. I would pay a few months of it since I was having car problems and it took me a few months before I realized that the situation would not quickly change and got to the gym to file the paperwork. But it's enough that I now owe several thousand dollars incurred for a veterinary emergency a few months back. I'm not willing to have a gym go after me for money I shouldn't owe. It's been a long, hard time and I've had enough.

Thanks everyone.

[free2breathe]

free2breathe, if I interpret this correctly, I should be able to amend even after discharge so long as the amendment is made before my case is closed about six months after filing. Of course, I will double-check local rules, but is this what you were saying?

Yes, that's the way I read this, which comes directly out of the Bankruptcy Rules as seen on the US Courts' website:

Rule 1009. Amendments of Voluntary Petitions, Lists, Schedules and Statements
(a) General Right to Amend. A voluntary petition, list, schedule, or statement may be amended by the debtor as a matter of course at any time before the case is closed. The debtor shall give notice of the amendment to the trustee and to any entity affected thereby. On motion of a party in interest, after notice and a hearing, the court may order any voluntary petition, list, schedule, or statement to be amended and the clerk shall give notice of the amendment to entities designated by the court.

[doni49]

doni49, one of the things I was trying to determine is how the bankruptcy affects any amounts that they insist I owe if they fail to honor their own process of requiring a request to suspend, something I gave them after I took the responsibility of emailing and calling them to see what my options were. It was never my goal to walk away from any legitimate debt. I had hoped that was clear from my original post.

When I read your first message, I thought you wanted them to wipe out what you owed prior to the requested suspension. But I was having trouble understanding how/why you would expect them to know to wipe out that debt if you didn't inform them of your BK. I went back and re-read your message and saw that you agreed to get caught up on what you owed from before the suspension.

If they insist that they never received your suspension request and that you should pay them for everything after that point, then absolutely amend your docs to include them--and have the entire balance discharged including from before the suspension request.