Sued by CITI - Right On Schedule

[catleg]

I will be interested to hear how this works out.

I've given up hope that the courts are not captured by these crooks the same as the legislatures and the regulators.

[ryan]

So looks like I will be launching a MTD against them for lack of subject matter jurisdiction (since I initiated/elected private arbitration) and initiating arbitration against them as well. I do have a lawyer working on other suits and may have to see about the firm taking on the arbitration.....

I'm interested in following this too....You obviously know a lot about this plan of attack....do you think electing private arbitration and what follows can be done by a pro se?....I'm talking about Chase and also Citi as plaintiffs.?

Just wondered.

[flyinbroke]

You can do it pro se. Check your PMs.

[danpan]

The Moore Group sued me on behalf of Citi, sewer service (the claim substituted service) on 1/6/2010 and mailed copy on 1/7/2010. (I think I have 40 days to respond if you don't care to file motion to quash service of summon). At this point can I still initiate election of arbitration? I am not even sure it is in the initial contract(by the way where do I get a copy of the contract?)

[flyinbroke]

Yes, the agreements are publicly posted on the Citi website. They list AAA and JAMS.

JAMS is more consumer friendly from what I have observed. I have chosen JAMS because it cost at most 250 for the consumer, and will cost the CC company between 2-5K to get started. Arbitrators run 400-500 an hour, with 10 hour days. Since I changed my mind about filing BK over five accounts, I decided to fight them head on and this is a good way to do it.

You MUST answer the summons, and at that time you can file a MTC private, contractual arbitration. Once arbitration is elected, litigation in the courts is off the table. You can lose in arbitration, but it takes more hoops to get the judgment...until then it is private record.

(As an aside: Citi will pay 20K to collect 2K because that is how they roll. I know of one person where they spent in the six digit range, only to give up at the 11th hour and settle for mutual dismissal.)

[danpan]

flyin thanks a lot for the information. It is really great information!! I will do some research in the subject, I bet many lawyers don't even know about it because I did talk to an consumer defense lawyer and he told me not to waste my money to hire him (he is honest) because Citi is suing me not debt collectors so they have all the original document, he said I will lose the case no matter what he does for me. And he told me not to even bother quash the service of summon because it will only add to the legal cost on their side and eventually added to the judgement amount. He said the best option for me is to settle with Citi (The Moore legal group) or file BK (he is not a BK atty so he asked me to consult one to find out if Chapter 7 or 13 is best for me)

[flyinbroke]

Lawyers don't know much about arbitration because the landscape changed so radically with the fall of NAF. The MN AG did the consumer a huge favor when she pretty much exposed the scam behind NAF.

The lawyer is right...even if they had a piece of notebook paper with a balance written by Citi in orange crayon, they would win in court. But BK is not the only answer and was not a logical answer for my situation.

If you have counterclaims and FDCPA/state violations against the law group, that is how you can fight Citi or any other OC. In my state, if the OC knows the CA/law firm is a violator and does nothing, they are pretty much held liable for the offenses committed by the agents. (I notified them, they signed the CMRRR, they kept on suing. Whoops.)

All sides have agreed to exploring settlement offers in arbitration. In court, I would likely lose and lose huge.

[treehugger1]

Flyin, Your candor is appreciated. Here is what I've noted in my local state circuit courts. I do see an occasional argument for arbitration, I also see the argument ignored and the plaintiff keep right on suing. While all this might add to more violations against the plaintiff, many of these would have to be tried in a federal court, as the local court system here already has "mandatory arbitration" if one files an answer. I know that this is different than some contractual obligation one might read in their CC agreement, however, the local district judges seem to be well within their right to ignore those counter-complaints as arbitration at the local or state level leaves "no harm done."

While one might eventually sue in federal court, in the meantime one will need to keep fighting the localized suit. All of this begins to cost dollars in a state that literally charges both plaintiff and defendant for every little miniscule filing.

I carefully weighed my options every time I was sued (7-8 lawsuits.) My decision in all cases was to let them get the default judgment.

[flyinbroke]

Tree, in all my research I learned that the most trouble came from Oregon residents because of the mandatory court arbitration that was pretty much the same as the regular court system. It too relied on the crayon written paper from the OC, and the consumer loses.

There are so many landmines when you live there, that if you have nothing for creditors to grab it may be worth just letting things go to judgment.

[mysticspirit25]

I agree with some of the other posters, what you can do is file a "dispositive motion", such as a motion to dismiss or a motion to stay pending private contractual arbitration. Unless the debt is over $10,000 most attorneys when they get your motion will offer to drop for mutual dismissal as it cost a ton to arbitrate. Any local court cannot disregard the arbitration provision in 99% of credit card contracts, it is governed by Title 9 Federal Arbitration Act, and is federal law. It essentially ties the hands of your opponent, have done it numerous times on debts greater than 10k and avoided BK alltogether.

Also, stay AWAY from COURT arbitration no better than kangaroo court what you want is "PRIVATE" arb. IE, JAMS, AAA, etc.

Regardless is LOCAL court disregards the provisions of the credit card contract , and most of them say (if you or we elect to arbitrate you or we give up the right to have a court trial...), you can appeal, and even get an injunction from a federal judge at no cost by filing an In forma pauperus (IFP) application with the appropriate federal court.

[treehugger1]

MS 25, I have researched your comments on attempting to force private arbitration here. It does not seem to work. And, just because something is federal law does not imply the states must obey if a state has a law that offers the consumer the same or "better" protection. The question might be "what is better?" While filing the IFP might buy you some time here, I think in most cases the end result will be the same. I could easily see the federal judge here passing the complaint back to the state court. I'll do a bit more research here in our federal court district. As we all know, not even the different federal court districts often agree with how to interpret federal law.

[keepsmiling]

I am very interested in trying this approach. Anyone else successfully used arbitration, particularly in NJ?

[danpan]

why would the credit card company pay tens times more than the consumer to arbitrate?
If it is true that Citi would pay more than $10k to recover $2k then what is the point of keep fighting? My balance according to Citi is $20k. The law firm they hired offered to settle at $10k which I don't have. I already paid $500 to retain a BK atty. So he is ready to file BK for me anytime but I just want avoid BK if it is possible because Citi is the only one suing me so far. My only income is workers comp payment which I understand in California is exempt from garnishment. My house is way underwater and I have a $175k homestead limit because I am disabled. I wonder if I can convince them to settle less like 20% of the balance instead of 50% they are offering now.

[danpan]

Anyone from CA that is dealing with Citi or the Moore Group in Santa Ana?

[GoingDown]

I agree with some of the other posters, what you can do is file a "dispositive motion", such as a motion to dismiss or a motion to stay pending private contractual arbitration. Unless the debt is over $10,000 most attorneys when they get your motion will offer to drop for mutual dismissal as it cost a ton to arbitrate. Any local court cannot disregard the arbitration provision in 99% of credit card contracts, it is governed by Title 9 Federal Arbitration Act, and is federal law. It essentially ties the hands of your opponent, have done it numerous times on debts greater than 10k and avoided BK alltogether.

Also, stay AWAY from COURT arbitration no better than kangaroo court what you want is "PRIVATE" arb. IE, JAMS, AAA, etc.

Regardless is LOCAL court disregards the provisions of the credit card contract , and most of them say (if you or we elect to arbitrate you or we give up the right to have a court trial...), you can appeal, and even get an injunction from a federal judge at no cost by filing an In forma pauperus (IFP) application with the appropriate federal court.

That's a good idea as it doesn't cost you anything to file the appeal and meanwhile the creditor keeps getting charged, and might make them less likely to want to keep coming after you.