probably days away from a default judgment - now what?

[tacomeat]

since im not going to answer they complaint, i imagine the default judgment is days away.

my goal is to file bk in approx 2 months.


so, what happens now? and whats the time frame for whatever happens.

do i have to be notified of what they are doing? i presume they will seek out my wage info (none), bank account info (under $50), IRA info (exempted), and other asset info. what if i have $1000 in my wallet for example, how can they find out i have that and then take part of it?

is it a certainty that in the next few weeks i will get "interrogatories" delivered to my door to answer? (and will i have to pay to answer those too??)


as ive said in previous posts, my only sizable assets are my small IRA and about $3000-ish in positive equity in my car (state bk exemption for car is $5000) for which I still have a loan and am current on. plus of course, some cash on hand that i will use for final expenses and attorney fees before filing bk.

thx

[frogger]

so, what happens now? and whats the time frame for whatever happens.

That really depends. You won't know what they're going to do until they start to do it.

Don't worry about anything until it happens. You're filing soon anyway, so it's no big deal.

If something happens, come back and we'll talk about it.

[ryan]

I would just make sure bank accts are closed or have only money in them you are prepared to lose.

[catleg]

It normally moves slower than you think. Their main hope is a wage garnishment, followed by bank account levy. If they can't do those 2 things they're really not much better off with a judgment than without. They might get a better price when they go to sell it to a JDB.

[tay666]

What state are you in, and any idea how backed up the local courts are?
Here in NE Ohio, it took almost 4 months just to get the default judgement in one of the cases because the court was so backlogged, and it took so long for the creditor to file the final papers to accept the judgement.

[tacomeat]

im in colorado. no clue on how backed up things are.

but yeah, day by day im not too worried, its just that i really dont fully know what to expect. but if its essentially just a judgment worth the paper its written on, then im not in any different place i was before - holding a small amount of assets that seem to be exempt.

im only waiting to file bk to surpass the one year mark from my last charge. its probably arbitrary and meaningless to do, but its probably the only thing i can do that i have control over to even pretend like im making an important decision on this matter that could impact the outcome, lol (i really crack myself up sometimes).

[catleg]

Unless you have questionable transfers to insiders you're trying to age off, i'd say you've waited plenty long enough. Might want to file to keep the judgment off your credit report, I think they are sort of a black mark. Not that I care very much about credit reports, but you might as well get as much benefit from the fresh start as possible and that includes clean credit.

I've found that some creditors wipe the account history clean on your credit report when the account goes to IIB status , Discover for example, while most others to not.

I probably would have considered filing sooner if I had known that.

[tacomeat]

Unless you have questionable transfers to insiders you're trying to age off, i'd say you've waited plenty long enough. Might want to file to keep the judgment off your credit report, I think they are sort of a black mark. Not that I care very much about credit reports, but you might as well get as much benefit from the fresh start as possible and that includes clean credit.

I've found that some creditors wipe the account history clean on your credit report when the account goes to IIB status , Discover for example, while most others to not.

I probably would have considered filing sooner if I had known that.

questionable transfers to insiders? not sure what you mean there.

i think my charging activity last year might look a little suspect since i made a number of charges in the $100-$300 range over a 4 month period and across all of my credit cards to the tune of about $25,000. i dont know if i'd ever have to explain what they are specifically unless someone (trustee and/or creditor) actually objects but my reasoning was that since one of my cards at the time was closed without warning, i was afraid i might lose access to all of that credit - so i started using it and stocking up on things i would need (so instead of "living off my credit cards" as expenses were needed, i just went out and bought everything i might need for the next 6 months to a year to ensure the credit that was previously extended to me wasnt surreptitiously taken away - since by that point i was sort of counting on it to survive). so, i figure the only hope i have of getting most or all of those charges discharged is to put some time in between them and my bk filing. and i guess the other issue is that i basically stopped making my credit card payments about 2 months after my last charge. had i known of the adverse implications at the time, i probably would have at least made a few more payments - but again, i was just in survival mode trying to hang on to what little i had at the time.

and why would a judgment on my credit report be any worse than a bankruptcy? that doesnt make sense since a bk is going to ruin my credit for a good 5 years or more (not that it isnt already in the tank now).

[ryan]

I've found that some creditors wipe the account history clean on your credit report when the account goes to IIB status , Discover for example, while most others to not.

I probably would have considered filing sooner if I had known that.

Whoa!...thats a useful piece of info actually, Catleg. I didn't know that. So what does it show then, for instance in the case of Discover?

[catleg]

This is what my Discover entry looks like on Experian, besides the account number. This account went all the way to charge off with them, the history is totally gone, recent balance either 0 or N/A. This is probably what you want, an utterly neutral tradeline. ( I changed all the data, by the way, what's left anyway ).

Status:
Petition for Chapter 13 Bankruptcy.


Date Opened:
12/2003
Date of Status:
08/2009
Reported Since:
N/A
Last Reported Date:
N/A


Type:
Revolving
Terms:
N/A
Monthly Payment:
$0
Responsibility:
Individual


Credit Limit:
$15,000
High Balance:
$16,274
Recent Balance:
N/A
Recent Payment:
N/A


Account History:
Filed Chapter 13 Bankruptcy on xxx xx, 2009

[Pandora]

questionable transfers to insiders? not sure what you mean there.

i think my charging activity last year might look a little suspect since i made a number of charges in the $100-$300 range over a 4 month period and across all of my credit cards to the tune of about $25,000. i dont know if i'd ever have to explain what they are specifically unless someone (trustee and/or creditor) actually objects but my reasoning was that since one of my cards at the time was closed without warning, i was afraid i might lose access to all of that credit - so i started using it and stocking up on things i would need (so instead of "living off my credit cards" as expenses were needed, i just went out and bought everything i might need for the next 6 months to a year to ensure the credit that was previously extended to me wasnt surreptitiously taken away - since by that point i was sort of counting on it to survive). so, i figure the only hope i have of getting most or all of those charges discharged is to put some time in between them and my bk filing. and i guess the other issue is that i basically stopped making my credit card payments about 2 months after my last charge. had i known of the adverse implications at the time, i probably would have at least made a few more payments - but again, i was just in survival mode trying to hang on to what little i had at the time.

and why would a judgment on my credit report be any worse than a bankruptcy? that doesnt make sense since a bk is going to ruin my credit for a good 5 years or more (not that it isnt already in the tank now).

Tacomeat...

I've been following your posts and I have a question regarding how you're planning this entire thing out if you dont mind answering - because its quite obvious you've been planning it for a while from your postings (or to me it reads that way). You stated you havent worked due to personal issues you have and posted earlier that you wanted to know if you could use a psych. eval as means of defense for an AP - (".... i should probably have been approved for soc sec disability if this has been such a burden for me these past 5 years. bottom line - doesnt seem like something you can just craft out of thin air at the last minute (not that i was trying to do that) and it would also be pretty expensive to do (my situation wouldnt warrant this...".)

and during this planning stage for BK, you went out and charged and/or advanced gift cards / pre-paid visa type of cards, etc that you are and have been living on - since you dont have a job, and stock piled whatever you needed, for this specific reasoning of filing BK and getting to your 1 year mark - in this thread: http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.php?t=57379

My question is how on earth do you not expect the trustee to look at your case questionably and not as fraudulent? I'm not accusing you of doing such, I'm merely asking you how YOU would not see how the trustee wouldnt view it that way. ?? You claim you have no money to your name other than a few thousand in your retirement/401/whatever it is - but are and have been living off of your cards you purchased a while ago for the very reason of claiming BK. Isnt that going to be viewed as fraudulent or do you not see it that way?

I guess I'm just not understanding how come you'd want to try to hide assets (i.e., "what if i have $1000 in my wallet for example, how can they find out i have that and then take part of it?") and lie if you're signing papers and raising your hand saying you promise to tell the truth and sign under oath.

I guess I just dont understand is all but then again - To each their own I guess...

[tacomeat]

Tacomeat...

I've been following your posts

the points you raise precisely encapsulate MY own concerns for my situation because i, too, would think it seems fraudulent, lol. and maybe it is, by bk law standards, i dont know. well, maybe not fraudulent per se, but non-dischargeable. at the heart of my situation is the question about how suspicious all this stuff looks like when put together. i have no idea what anyone looks at in my financial history, if its line by line - item by item, how far they go back, how they go about piecing it all together and if it even matters if i wait a few more months. do the creditors talk to each other to see all of my similar activity across each account? does all of this stuff only come up IF one of my creditors objects? sure, NOW, i am trying to do do my best (whatever that might be) to save myself from having a huge un-discharged amount upon exiting bk. in other words, since i didnt have a master plan at work, i feel like i need to work backwards to explain away my situation or handle it in such a way that most benefits me so i can start with a clean slate. do you see the difference? i guess its implied that i want to do that within legal parameters (but of course benefiting me as best as possible).

but i dont even know if anywhere in the process i would need to explain what i did in using up my credit and why i did it. i made lots of smaller transactions because i thought it wouldnt raise any red flags to the cc's where they might cut my credit off (as did happen with one account that i got a few atm advances on and had security problems with make a couple $200 purchases in the same day- thus confirming my suspicions). i wasnt even thinking about bk at the time. furthermore - as it now pertains to bk, its not like i was blowing it on cars and boats, i was just using it for the basics before it got taken away. but is that better or not in their eyes? i dont know. had i filed bk, 6 months ago, i would think it would look more suspicious than filing now - because at that time i would still have had several thousands of dollars in charged items. but by the time i file (if i do) in a few months, it will have been a year and its all gonna be gone. (PS - im not saying ive lived a scrimper's life this past year, because after $80k + of debt, it didnt really seem to matter anymore, but any excess was just for comfort and distraction - lots of movies, eating out at chain restaurants, lots of late night junk food runs, lots of gas for driving around to all of my old haunts to lament, a little bit of gambling, probably more for lottery plays, etc). anyway, was it MY job to inform the credit card companies that my income drastically dropped so that they could then lower my balances? again, i dont know. its not like i dont want to pay it back, or wouldnt if i had or came into the money. i guess that was part of the point of using the credit - to give myself time for something to happen.

for the past several years, ive waffled between using credit and taking retirement money. but i made one bad financial decision after another. not because i didnt know any better - i am educated - but because i no longer cared because of my mental problems that totally overtook my life. so i finally decided to just use my credit up before it was cut off figuring the IRA would still be there as a backstop. is THAT fraudulent? i dont know. i was extended credit on factual information at the time. life happened in the interim and i had to use it. on the one hand, i figured (hoped) i wouldnt be alive by now to face the consequences, but alas, here i am typing away. on the other hand, i have every theoretical intention of paying it back - that is, if i happened to get some money. i guess if i had a big scheme in play, i probably should have kept making the minimum payments, right, to make it look less suspicious? but at THAT time, the debt had accumulated so much that it was going to take like $2000 each month JUST for the combined minimum payments so i just decided to stop paying all together. and actually it took me 1-2 months to stop because i didnt even know how to handle the calls i was getting (coupled with the reality that wow, i really was going to be that person that just quits making payments). so those last few months i think i made tiny payments . looking back, i dont even know why. they were threatening me with judgments and credit reporting and at the time, it scared me i guess, lol. which is funny considering where i am now a year later.....

so today - if i file, get AP-ed for all or some of this suspicious activity and end up settling for $10,000 or $20,000 being undischarged - i guess i dont see what the point would have been to file bk in the first place. i mean, i feel very weighted down by this debt and would like to get out from under it to get even the smallest of chances to start fresh. but heck, im so out of sorts emotionally that even that seems like it would take a minor miracle. but i KNOW i cant do it with all this debt burdening me down, which is why i would like to file and try for the fresh start (therefore, i am trying to maximize my efforts to do that).

anyway, i guess i dont even know what your overriding point is really in tracking all of my posts and regurgitating them back to me. are you trying to play amateur investigator? devils advocate? are you trying to help me? just passing time lol? as for the assets - im not hiding assets from a bk, i am presently trying to keep my assets from being taken in a judgment. if i did ask about it as related to bk, it was more of a hypothetical - trying to figure out how invasive of process it is (as in, do they come to my home to inventory all of my stuff including whats in my wallet) because i have no idea. sure id love to hide assets - if it were legal, and if i had any. im just trying to figure out what the LEGAL boundaries are along the way since this is all new to me. again, this would seem to be implied, but maybe not. well, enjoy reading, lol...

[Pandora]

....
anyway, i guess i dont even know what your overriding point is really in tracking all of my posts and regurgitating them back to me. are you trying to play amateur investigator? devils advocate? are you trying to help me? just passing time lol? as for the assets - im not hiding assets from a bk, i am presently trying to keep my assets from being taken in a judgment. if i did ask about it as related to bk, it was more of a hypothetical - trying to figure out how invasive of process it is (as in, do they come to my home to inventory all of my stuff including whats in my wallet) because i have no idea. sure id love to hide assets - if it were legal, and if i had any. im just trying to figure out what the LEGAL boundaries are along the way since this is all new to me. again, this would seem to be implied, but maybe not. well, enjoy reading, lol...

Nope - just curious as to how you thought the trustee or UST would look at it is all. From outside looking in, it appears from my point of view, that it may possibly be viewed as fraud and I was just wondering how you were planning on handling that aspect if it arose. Debt is debt is debt, doesnt matter what you bought, what matters is how you got there - was it planned out to defraud at the end? I think thats how the courts look at it in general. I dont understand how you can take 60K in withdraws from your cards, have them deposited into your bank account and pay your bills off of that money for 3-4 years (your words not mine) and then not expect to have it frowned upon is all. it wasnt your money used to pay your debts when you quit working - it was the banks money used as a deposit into your bank account. How do you answer that question to the trustee when the issue arises on where the money came to pay your bills, including the payment to the same credit cards you advanced from?

As I said, I've been following your posts the entire time, so I didnt just "pull up and regurgitate them back to you" - and again to each their own - but I did take a bit of offense way back when when you first implied using mental illness and disability as a means to an end to justify your course, as I am disabled........

Ce la vie... carry on - and good luck to you in your case

[tacomeat]

Nope - just curious as to how you thought the trustee or UST would look at it is all. From outside looking in, it appears from my point of view, that it may possibly be viewed as fraud and I was just wondering how you were planning on handling that aspect if it arose. Debt is debt is debt, doesnt matter what you bought, what matters is how you got there - was it planned out to defraud at the end? I think thats how the courts look at it in general. I dont understand how you can take 60K in withdraws from your cards, have them deposited into your bank account and pay your bills off of that money for 3-4 years (your words not mine) and then not expect to have it frowned upon is all. it wasnt your money used to pay your debts when you quit working - it was the banks money used as a deposit into your bank account. How do you answer that question to the trustee when the issue arises on where the money came to pay your bills, including the payment to the same credit cards you advanced from?

As I said, I've been following your posts the entire time, so I didnt just "pull up and regurgitate them back to you" - and again to each their own - but I did take a bit of offense way back when when you first implied using mental illness and disability as a means to an end to justify your course, as I am disabled........

Ce la vie... carry on - and good luck to you in your case

why would you take offense if i am in fact mentally ill? if you did take offense, why not address it in that thread instead of this one? besides, who are you to say i am or am not mentally ill? or to imply that i am ONLY using it to justify a devious course of action. why couldnt it be true on both counts? why couldnt i use my mental illness as an explanation if it was legal to do so? and to that point, if this was all an elaborately planned out scheme, might i not have been setting up that defense from the onset? for someone who has been tracking my posts, you either dont seem to be getting the gist of them, or you are trying to read way to much into them because the running theme is in fact HOW am i going to (legally) justify my debt so that it all gets discharged!

so i appreciate your "concern" about how my situation might look suspicious, but seeing how ive already thought the same thing from pretty much my first post and have been seeking help in that respect from several angles on most of my posts, i dont see how you are contributing anything substantive to my situation - be it the bankruptcy or the judgment. you didnt offer anything of importance regarding the specifics of what the UST does, you arent really commiserating with me in my situation, but you did bring up a month old case about being offended, and you have made several assumptions about whether im lying, cheating, scheming, defrauding, or what have you. that about sums it up, right?

[Pandora]

why would you take offense if i am in fact mentally ill? if you did take offense, why not address it in that thread instead of this one? besides, who are you to say i am or am not mentally ill? or to imply that i am ONLY using it to justify a devious course of action. why couldnt it be true on both counts? why couldnt i use my mental illness as an explanation if it was legal to do so? and to that point, if this was all an elaborately planned out scheme, might i not have been setting up that defense from the onset? for someone who has been tracking my posts, you either dont seem to be getting the gist of them, or you are trying to read way to much into them because the running theme is in fact HOW am i going to (legally) justify my debt so that it all gets discharged!

so i appreciate your "concern" about how my situation might look suspicious, but seeing how ive already thought the same thing from pretty much my first post and have been seeking help in that respect from several angles on most of my posts, i dont see how you are contributing anything substantive to my situation - be it the bankruptcy or the judgment. you didnt offer anything of importance regarding the specifics of what the UST does, you arent really commiserating with me in my situation, but you did bring up a month old case about being offended, and you have made several assumptions about whether im lying, cheating, scheming, defrauding, or what have you. that about sums it up, right?

It disturbed me simply for the mere fact that you yourself stated
"...if this has been such a burden for me these past 5 years. bottom line - doesnt seem like something you can just craft out of thin air at the last minute (not that i was trying to do that) and it would also be pretty expensive to do (my situation wouldnt warrant this...". So - has it been a burden to you or not? People usually dont say "If"....and they ususally dont ask their lawyer if it can be used as a defense...

THAT is offensive to those that truly are mentally disabled or physically disabled. It reads that it hasnt been that much of a burden to you and you were trying to use it as a defense against an AP, plain and simple. Perhaps you should read how you come across in your postings before you hit the "POST" button hmm?

I dont really care one way or another how you go about doing what you're doing - my biggest issue in your posting is that you ARE trying to get around your assets and you yourself have posted just that. Say what you will, try to justify yourself however you desire, but in the end, its your own wording that says it all. If its legal you shouldnt have to justify anything, right? I find it hard to commiserate with you, and if that offends you, my apologies for that, but its the way you are coming across that puts the lack of empathy on my part towards you.

If you truly have a mental illness - then I feel your pain and you have my utmost sympathy. I wish you well in that and that you may get the desired help you require. However - dont use that as a tool to justify your means. You on one had state you cannot work, then you state you will go out to get a job, albeit part time, so it "looks good" - then will quit later on. If you truly had those mental issues with working and people - ...well... just sayin'

As I said, good luck to you and I hope it all works out the way you desire it to. I have nothing more to add or say at this juncture.

All my best to you and yours.

ETA: and if you're wondering why I'm just now posting my "concerns" - its because you keep asking the same questions and "how to's" to get around things.