Cautionary tale on not talking to creditors

[fireworks]

We went over a year between our last payment on credit cards and our eventual filing date (not by plan - just had many delays). For the first few days I answered every call and told the collectors that I had been forced to close my business (true), was looking for employment (also true) and would send a payment if and when I could (not entirely true). This put a few off for a couple days, but not all - American Express was particularly nasty.

In short order I set up call blocking on my phone. As each collector called I would tell them the situation once, if they called again they were blocked.

Once I retained my attorney (within the first month of not paying) he gave me some guidelines on talking to creditors. I un-blocked all of the numbers and as the calls came in I politely told each collector that I was filing for bankruptcy and they needed to contact my attorney for more information. If they called again, I was harsher with them, told them the calls were recorded and to call my attorney. Very few collectors called again at that point. For several weeks I was handling several calls each week, but by 2-3 months in everything had quieted down.

Some of my debts were sold to one collection agency after another and each new collector had to be given the lawyer's number. In general though, we didn't have to deal with collectors much for the next 8 months. They sent us plenty of mail but all of it went to the attorney's office for processing.

What frogger said makes sense. Everything is getting more and more automated and your information is for sale all over the place. I had zero income while unemployed, and even once I found a job my total debt was something like 5-6 times my annual income. That makes me not much of a target for a lawsuit, no blood from a stone and all that.

My strategy worked for me. Even if you're not planning to file now, it might behoove you to retain an attorney. I heard from several collectors who said plenty of people say they're filing bankruptcy but don't. When I gave them an attorney's contact information they took it down and quit calling. I don't know how many actually called the attorney to confirm, but they quit calling me so that's all I care about.

[jacko]

You are collection proof. So they sue, big deal. If they want to waste money in court costs and lawyer fees, more power to them. Why not just turn off the ringer?

We went over a year between our last payment on credit cards and our eventual filing date (not by plan - just had many delays). For the first few days I answered every call and told the collectors that I had been forced to close my business (true), was looking for employment (also true) and would send a payment if and when I could (not entirely true). This put a few off for a couple days, but not all - American Express was particularly nasty.

In short order I set up call blocking on my phone. As each collector called I would tell them the situation once, if they called again they were blocked.

Once I retained my attorney (within the first month of not paying) he gave me some guidelines on talking to creditors. I un-blocked all of the numbers and as the calls came in I politely told each collector that I was filing for bankruptcy and they needed to contact my attorney for more information. If they called again, I was harsher with them, told them the calls were recorded and to call my attorney. Very few collectors called again at that point. For several weeks I was handling several calls each week, but by 2-3 months in everything had quieted down.

Some of my debts were sold to one collection agency after another and each new collector had to be given the lawyer's number. In general though, we didn't have to deal with collectors much for the next 8 months. They sent us plenty of mail but all of it went to the attorney's office for processing.

What frogger said makes sense. Everything is getting more and more automated and your information is for sale all over the place. I had zero income while unemployed, and even once I found a job my total debt was something like 5-6 times my annual income. That makes me not much of a target for a lawsuit, no blood from a stone and all that.

My strategy worked for me. Even if you're not planning to file now, it might behoove you to retain an attorney. I heard from several collectors who said plenty of people say they're filing bankruptcy but don't. When I gave them an attorney's contact information they took it down and quit calling. I don't know how many actually called the attorney to confirm, but they quit calling me so that's all I care about.

[GWBcasualty]

So they sue... so what?

Most of the time is just the ultimate scare tactic to see if they can get oyou to settle.

We stopped paying in Jan/Feb 2009 and will file at the end of this month.

We received summons from Chase in December and from Crap1 more recently... we didn't file an answer and there is no activity on the court except for the proof of service.
Even if they would file a request for summary judgment now, it would not be approved before we filed our Ch 7... besides Chase sent a nice letter a few days ago asking if we were interested in using our tax refund to settle the lawsuit (we have no refund btw...)

So... Don't sweat it.

[Mi Bankruptcy]

I think allot of this can be avoided by retaining a attorney and then letting your creditors know. You talk with your attorney, decide when the best time is to file( 3-4 months or more).

When your creditors call you tell them you are filing bankruptcy. Give them your attorneys name and contact information. You then refuse to answer any other questions about your debt.When they ask what chapter you are filing you use one sentence... for all their questions.

My attorney can answer that would like his\her phone number. This works they shut up. I had one guy from India give me a problem and I said listen here.. I will give you one more time to take my attorney information down before I hang up and then you will never here from me again.

All calls will stop and they begin selling your debt off and not bothering you anymore until you file. This is why its usually best to file when you are not behind.. You really surprise them.

[frogger]

Everything is getting more and more automated and your information is for sale all over the place.

In areas that have computerized court filings (and all are going to be that way before long), one collector/attorney can file 3000 cases per month.

That's with no help, no support staff, just a computer and an internet connection.

It's coming folks. Collections is entering a different world.

[catleg]

Frogger is right about electronic case management.

Scanner submission of documents also opens the door for all kinds of attorney hanky panky, limited only by your imagination as to what you can do with a copy machine, scissors, glue, and a jar of white out.

[keptdigging]

I think I've put 2+2 together. This new computerized aggressive filing is what is really clogging up the bankruptcy courts and making lawyers so hard to get a hold of. Sure it's the economy (as the media will say) but litigating with a firehose is the immediate change.

And these days when you do get an appointment with an attorney, you have to wonder: Why do they have time to see you? I have not been able to get as far as a phone conversation with any of the lawyers I've actually been referred to. So while I can raise the money and don't have to file pro se... I am definitely feeling on my own for legal strategy.

[catleg]

There is definitely plenty of supply.

I read today that Chase expects their credit card division to show a loss for the year.

Imagine that.

Guess that quick filing of lawsuits thing isn't really working for them.

[keptdigging]

There is definitely plenty of supply.

I read today that Chase expects their credit card division to show a loss for the year.

Imagine that.

Guess that quick filing of lawsuits thing isn't really working for them.

Nor is that "let's try to make everyone file a 13 instead" strategy!

But in my case, Chase is still too slow. Amex beat them. I was actually planning on throwing Chase a few dollars to slow them down, but with an Amex suit already on the docket there is no point.

Hey California is broke, maybe Chase can fund it with filing fees.

[ryan]

Yes, Chase is really something!..

I just got a letter recently from their Legal Dept.
It starts off with something about the "ongoing lawsuit" and how they would still like to work something out, payment-wise. The words ''lawsuit' and 'legal action' are scattered throughout the thing.

But y'know what? ...there is no lawsuit. ...so, we'll see.

(one thing I can say, this whole experience has been a lesson in how to write a threatening letter!)

[frogger]

I read today that Chase expects their credit card division to show a loss for the year.

I just received some new credit card statistics a few days ago. I'll try to find them and post next week.

It's interesting...

[flyinbroke]

Frogger is right about electronic case management.

Scanner submission of documents also opens the door for all kinds of attorney hanky panky, limited only by your imagination as to what you can do with a copy machine, scissors, glue, and a jar of white out.

A very good reason to NEVER EVER put a signature on a DV or CD letter you send to a CA.

[flyinbroke]

Yes, Chase is really something!..

I just got a letter recently from their Legal Dept.
It starts off with something about the "ongoing lawsuit" and how they would still like to work something out, payment-wise. The words ''lawsuit' and 'legal action' are scattered throughout the thing.

But y'know what? ...there is no lawsuit. ...so, we'll see.

(one thing I can say, this whole experience has been a lesson in how to write a threatening letter!)

If you were a TX resident you may be able to sue for this letter. If there is no ongoing lawsuit (nothing in court) it not only violates the TX version of FDCPA, it also violates the deceptive trades practices act....major money in a lawsuit. Unlike FDCPA, OCs are liable under state laws.

[fireworks]

You are collection proof. So they sue, big deal. If they want to waste money in court costs and lawyer fees, more power to them. Why not just turn off the ringer?

I know better than to ignore the ringer on the home phone. They start calling the cell phone, the work phone, neighbors, relatives, whoever they can call. Much better to talk with them once or twice and move on.

Without knowing exactly when we would file, I didn't want to deal with process servers showing up at my door (or my job), notices from courts, etc etc. The biggest reason is that I don't intend to be poor all of my life. If for some reason we didn't follow through with the bankruptcy (an option that was on the table for quite some time) I didn't want the added burden of judgments to deal with. Even now that we've filed, I managed to avoid having any judgments on my credit report. I had one potential employer tell me that they would do a credit check, that bankruptcy was not a problem, but that if I had any judgments against me that they couldn't hire me. It's unfortunate that my credit report has such a bearing on job opportunities but it's reality.

[keptdigging]

By the time this is all over I think a lot of states will raise their exemptions. California already reaised its personal residence homestead. New York banks under Delaware law... they still gotta collect in your local state. And as much as it isn't much of a fair fight legally, the opposite is true politically. One of the best things we can do to help the next guy down the line is to spread the word about the new more aggressive tactics. I wrote another thread with that idea so I'll stop now.