Can someone seize a safe / safety deposit box if they have a judgment?

[geoffois]

How safe is a safety deposit box? If for example someone has a judgment against me can they seize the safety deposit box? If they can, is it possible for them to find out where one is? I read somewhere that they need to know what branch it is at, but maybe they just need to know the banking company? Or is it illegal for the bank to tell someone even if they have a judgment what branch a person has a safe deposit box at?

[treehugger1]

Well, if you are called in to a debtor examination (not common, but I see they are becoming more common here in my local district,) and fail to divulge assets, and later the judge finds out you lied, you are in deep shit.

[junker]

i was concerned about the same thing a few years ago, and was told the judgment creditor CAN do a blanket search in your area ie. banks in your neighborhoold. and get the info. as hugger said, if it comes to debtors exam then you could have a problem....i use pre paid debit cards. just as safe and you can turn into cash instantly if you have debtors exam.....on the other hand if the box is in someone elses name ie..parent or partner and you are just signer and have key should have no problem....

[geoffois]

Hmmm, so I can have a friend get a box and I can be a signer and have keys. That is a good idea.

[WhatMoney]

Hmmm, so I can have a friend get a box and I can be a signer and have keys. That is a good idea.

Not quite. All signers and anyone else that has access must now provide their social security number, thanks to the Patriot Act. And you need to be careful you are not signed up as a co-owner of the box.

You can have a friend rent a box, and then, with both of you present, sign the rental agreement where the friend can appoint you as a Deputy or Agent. Deputies are permitted to access or close the safe deposit box without the presence of the renter(s). However the owner of the box can revoke your Deputy/Agent status at any time, leaving you with no access to the box. The owner is responsible for rental fees. An Agent status might be given to an attorney that manages your affairs for example.

Your name will still show up in a bank search for your name or SSN as a Deputy or Agent for the safe deposit box. It is up to the bank to inform the creditor's attorney that you are not an owner, and they may fail to do so. Legally you are not supposed to keep any of your property in a safe deposit box if you are an Agent. But that will be hard to prove if you have access and trust your friend.

Also, any writ of garnishment delivered to a bank will usually ask for any and all property held for you by the bank, which will include safe deposit boxes as well as accounts. If you have a checking account at the same bank you have your name on a safe deposit box, the bank's search will reveal the box.

Most banks give a discount on box rent if the owner has another account with them. For example, box rent for me is $10/yr with an account and $30/yr without a qualifying account. You probably don't want a bank account, which is more easily found by judgment holders, at the same bank as your safe deposit box, even if you are only a Deputy/Agent.

The creditor does not normally need anything more than a writ of garnishment to find a safe deposit box. It the judgment holder wants to chance the box contains non-exempt assets, they need to pay the bank for the locksmith drilling and lock replacement costs, usually around $150. They will need witnesses, usually a Sheriff's deputy and bank officer, to open and search the box for assets, since you will not be informed of any search and seizure in advance. Since this requires extra costs and time it is not common, but if the creditor finds no other assets and thinks you may be hiding cash, coins, stocks and bonds, or jewelry, they have the right to open your box in most states. (Wisconsin is an exception I know about.)

[frogger]

And on another note, our bk trustee specifically asked of each filer if they had a safety deposit box.

[junker]

i am power of attorney on my other halfs checking account, they did not ask for a ssn for this, just a copy of durable poa. yet i sign all checks, but yes, if you have to give up your ssn you are fair game for the creditors...if you are going to play the hide and seek game with the judgment creditors, you will need to be very resourceful..and a safety box really isnt the way to go...i would worry every nite that they were going to find it....

[geoffois]

Ok, thank you everyone for the valuable information. I will avoid the box for sure. The power of attorney seems the way to go for the box or even for another account. I am set up that way on my dad's account since he is not in 100% health. Thank you WhatMoney for providing so much information in detail. I'm sure it will help others that do a search also.

[WhatMoney]

Ok, thank you everyone for the valuable information. I will avoid the box for sure. The power of attorney seems the way to go for the box or even for another account. I am set up that way on my dad's account since he is not in 100% health. Thank you WhatMoney for providing so much information in detail. I'm sure it will help others that do a search also.

Different banks may have different policies or interpretation of the Patriot Act requirements. I tried to set up a checking account for my mother using my Durable Power of Attorney and the bank insisted they needed my SSN. I argued with them for awhile but they would not change their policy. Same old story, they used to not require SSN except for tax purposes on trustee type accounts, but 911 changed all that. The government assumes all US citizens are terrorists until proven otherwise I guess.

One thing about any DPOA - it is only in effect when the person you represent is alive. POA's expire upon death. A bank is required to freeze any account (or safe deposit box) upon the death of the owner, and hold it for probate and estate settlement. While you may know about the death long before the bank is notified (by SSA and death announcements), there is always the risk of estate litigation if you have other parties interested in the estate (like relatives or the state or federal government).

If a subpoena of the bank account records show that you withdrew funds from the estate after the death of the party, you could be liable for unauthorized access to the funds. This is why estate planning attorneys and bank officials often recommend joint ownership accounts. You can access the funds and property legally after the other party dies with a joint account or safe deposit box.

[junker]

B of A..and US bank did not require a ssn for poa.

[WhatMoney]

B of A..and US bank did not require a ssn for poa.

Funny, it was US Bank that did insist on my SSN. I opened the account anyway and now that account, which I am only a DPOA, shows up in my ChexSystems report when the account was opened, and when the checks were ordered, as if the account belongs to me.

[junker]

the us bank acct was opened 5 months ago..altho she was with me and signed the papers...i gave them the dpoa papers and they put me on as signer..did not ask for ssn at all..i am not listed on the check or statement when it comes.....B of A..i was a signer on her acct..and went into bank and told them i was anticipating problems from judgment etc. they said as i was listed as signer could be a problem....we closed that acct and reopened another acct when i had dpoa papers and they said no problem and would not need ssn...i was not listed on checks but when statement came was listed as poa on statement...the asst branch manager told us this was the way to go........but i notice on some discovery papers i see..it is a common question to ask if you are poa on someones acct. so unless the money you put in the acct cant be traced to you ....it could still be a problem....

[anykey]

what is in the box?

[geoffois]

I just asked one bank, and they said if someone gets a box, they would still need that person ssn if they are to have access to the box.

[Bell30656]

Like Anykey... I have to ask... "What's in the box?"