Judgment Levy possible in State other than Judgment State

[neworld]

Hello all and thanks for some very informative reading so far.


We will be filing and have our attornry on retainer (CH7) but can't until August.

Amex has filed Suite and we have been served after 5 months of non payment (they were also given our attorneys name and number months ago during the collection calls but have obviously decided to press forward)

They are suing my wife only(not a joint account) in California, as of January 2010 we now live in Oregon (non community property state).

1. Should I pay an AT to file a response in order to buy more time ( will it really buy enough to get to August or am I just throwing more bad money away ?)

2. I plan on moving all funds from our Joint account at U.S Bank in California to My (solo account not joint) US bank account in Oregon. Is there any remote chance that they can Levy my solo Oregon account ?

Thanks in adbvance for any suggestions or comments, this just keeps getting better all the time.

[treehugger1]

It is not all that hard to domesticate a judgment in Oregon from what I hear. I believe they do have to have the judgment filed in your county of residence. I'm not sure on the details. See Oregon Revised Statues Chapter 18. You can google this.

Why are you sticking with the same bank?

[WhatMoney]

Amex has filed Suite and we have been served after 5 months of non payment (they were also given our attorneys name and number months ago during the collection calls but have obviously decided to press forward)

They are suing my wife only(not a joint account) in California, as of January 2010 we now live in Oregon (non community property state).

1. Should I pay an AT to file a response in order to buy more time ( will it really buy enough to get to August or am I just throwing more bad money away ?)

2. I plan on moving all funds from our Joint account at U.S Bank in California to My (solo account not joint) US bank account in Oregon. Is there any remote chance that they can Levy my solo Oregon account ?

Where were you served, CA or OR? And how, personally or by mail? I take it only your wife's name is on the lawsuit?

Your wife can be sued in the county where she has her assets. So if they know about her US Bank account in CA, they could sue in the county of old residence and have the county sheriff levy the CA account.

Because you are both now in OR, they should sue her in your present county/state of residence, but if you are not named in the judgment they can't touch your own account in OR.

If the summons was served in CA, they may not know where you now reside. If they get a default judgment in CA, and they know your present address, they can domesticate the judgment in OR courts - this might take a week if they are in a hurry. Your wife should not have her name on any OR accounts to prevent a levy of the account.

To seize your CA assets they will still need a judgment in the CA county of her assets in CA. So I would move all your wife's money out of the USBank CA account right now and close the account. Hopefully Amex will not claim an illegal transfer of assets after judgment in CA.

I would use another bank in OR, the more local the better. USBank is national and your new account will be easy to locate, in case Amex wants to get nasty. They would only do that if they suspected your wife's CA account funds were transfered to your OR account and they were going to legally pursue that against your wife. Not too likely. Cash is your friend. Don't write a check from your wife's CA account to your new OR account, please.

[WhatMoney]

Should I pay an AT to file a response in order to buy more time

I didn't respond to this question. Is the summons from a CA court? You could file an answer requesting a change of venue to your new address and state, in which case the court might dismiss the case in CA. Then AMEX would just start over in OR courts. But if AMEX feels your wife's assets are still in CA I believe they could still sue in CA. A bank does not have to obey a garnishment/levy order from an out-of-state court judgment.

This is why some recommend having out-of-state bank accounts. If you get a judgment in your home state, the creditor must still file a judgment domestication in the out-of-state court/county where your bank account is located, before they can levy the account. And that requires an out-of-state attorney and paying for the out-of-state sheriff to deliver the bank garnishment order. This at least slows them down and creates more cost for the judgment holder. They also have to locate the out-of-state account...

[catleg]

Do they know that you now live in Oregon? Any way of keeping that fact a secret, or is it already "known" (i.e. forwarded mail, changed address on credit cards or bank account, etc).

The #1 weapon of judgment enforcement is wage garnishment. Used to be weapon #2 was putting a lien on your property, maybe not so effective anymore.

I would open several new bank accounts and put any money you want to keep in a bank in one of them. The others are just "bait". Whatever account you might have paid Amex from, it's toast now, just close it.

Treehugger is the expert on Oregon. I think you maybe have a decent shot at dragging the case out a few months in California court, from what I've heard. After all, most of the time it's just a matter of showing up.

[neworld]

It is not all that hard to domesticate a judgment in Oregon from what I hear. I believe they do have to have the judgment filed in your county of residence. I'm not sure on the details. See Oregon Revised Statues Chapter 18. You can google this.

Why are you sticking with the same bank?

Thanks for the reply an reference to Oregon Chapter18.

Actually US Bank is our move to Bank we had been with BofA and had used that previously to pay people we no longer are.

[neworld]

Where were you served, CA or OR? And how, personally or by mail? I take it only your wife's name is on the lawsuit?

Your wife can be sued in the county where she has her assets. So if they know about her US Bank account in CA, they could sue in the county of old residence and have the county sheriff levy the CA account.

Because you are both now in OR, they should sue her in your present county/state of residence, but if you are not named in the judgment they can't touch your own account in OR.

If the summons was served in CA, they may not know where you now reside. If they get a default judgment in CA, and they know your present address, they can domesticate the judgment in OR courts - this might take a week if they are in a hurry. Your wife should not have her name on any OR accounts to prevent a levy of the account.

To seize your CA assets they will still need a judgment in the CA county of her assets in CA. So I would move all your wife's money out of the USBank CA account right now and close the account. Hopefully Amex will not claim an illegal transfer of assets after judgment in CA.

I would use another bank in OR, the more local the better. USBank is national and your new account will be easy to locate, in case Amex wants to get nasty. They would only do that if they suspected your wife's CA account funds were transfered to your OR account and they were going to legally pursue that against your wife. Not too likely. Cash is your friend. Don't write a check from your wife's CA account to your new OR account, please.

We were served in CA at my old residence, my son in law took the summons from the server, my wife is the only one named as this was her account only.

As far as I can tell none of my creditors has any idea we are now living in Oregon and I have no plans on sharing that secret with them.

Good idean on the cash transfer.


Thanks

[WhatMoney]

I think you maybe have a decent shot at dragging the case out a few months in California court, from what I've heard. After all, most of the time it's just a matter of showing up.

To drag out the case his wife would have to appear. Depending on her OR location that could be an 1,100 mile trip one way. So unless she plans on this travel expense and time, her only choices for the CA summons is to ignore it and his wife gets a default judgment, or challenge it by mail based on her new location in OR.

The challenge could be done by an attorney or his wife, following the CA civil rules of procedure. As I said, it's not clear whether the court would dismiss the case or allow AMEX the judgment in CA anyway and then domesticate the case in OR - a simple procedure for a law firm. But the delay time would not be that long if his wife or attorney could not physically appear at a CA court hearing. I think the judge would rule based on the mail-in answer very quickly.

There is no reason for the husband to set up decoy bank accounts in OR. The OP is not being sued, only his wife is at risk, and we are not a community property state. She just gets along without bank accounts in her name until the BK can be filed and the judgment vacated.

The legal question is the transfer of funds after a summons has been issued, in an attempt to hide those funds from the creditor. That's what should be checked in both the CA and OR statutes - or talk to an attorney.

[neworld]

Do they know that you now live in Oregon? Any way of keeping that fact a secret, or is it already "known" (i.e. forwarded mail, changed address on credit cards or bank account, etc).

The #1 weapon of judgment enforcement is wage garnishment. Used to be weapon #2 was putting a lien on your property, maybe not so effective anymore.

I would open several new bank accounts and put any money you want to keep in a bank in one of them. The others are just "bait". Whatever account you might have paid Amex from, it's toast now, just close it.

Treehugger is the expert on Oregon. I think you maybe have a decent shot at dragging the case out a few months in California court, from what I've heard. After all, most of the time it's just a matter of showing up.

The fact that we are living in Oregon is still a secret as far as i now, no reason to believe otherwise at this point.

That's the prime reason for the me only Oregon account, from all of the reading I have done it doesn't appear that they can touch it for my wife's judgment in CA but I had to ask. I'm now starting to look over my shoulder with this being the first of possibly many with some directed at me as well.


Thanks for the reply.

[WhatMoney]

Actually US Bank is our move to Bank we had been with BofA and had used that previously to pay people we no longer are.

OK, originally you said US Bank in California. One thing about US Bank. If they are searching for your wife's account in CA, and happen to include your name because of the community property law in CA, then they could walk into any US Bank in CA with a garnishment order, and US Bank would search and find your new account in OR. But they would have to have some reason to serve US Bank first.

A local or regional Bank that does NO business in CA would complicate their search. However even if they did find your new OR account they can't seize it. They could subpoena it though along with your wife's CA account if they suspected fraud. A very long shot - I hope the amount is not much. If you were trying to hide $500,000 from your wife's account I figure you'd have already asked your lawyer.

[neworld]

To drag out the case his wife would have to appear. Depending on her OR location that could be an 1,100 mile trip one way. So unless she plans on this travel expense and time, her only choices for the CA summons is to ignore it and his wife gets a default judgment, or challenge it by mail based on her new location in OR.

The challenge could be done by an attorney or his wife, following the CA civil rules of procedure. As I said, it's not clear whether the court would dismiss the case or allow AMEX to file in CA anyway and then domesticate the case in OR - a simple procedure for a law firm. But the delay time would not be that long if his wife or attorney could not physically appear at a CA court hearing. I think the judge would rule based on the mail-in answer very quickly.

There is no reason for the husband to set up decoy bank accounts in OR. The OP is not being sued, only his wife is at risk, and we are not a community property state. She just gets along without bank accounts in her name until the BK can be filed.

The legal question is the transfer of funds after a summons has been issued, in an attempt to hide those funds from the creditor. That's what should be checked in both the CA and OR statutes - or talk to an attorney.

Sounds like the last point is worth spending some money on a consult with ATTY, I hadn't thought that far ahead about the legality of the transfers, seems this is something that most people would do when confronted with a move it or loose it situation.

The trip to Southern California is a long haul (about 940 miles), but we are prepared mentally and financially (to an extent) if it makes good strategic sense, it seems there are two schools of thought on the forum about ingoring or fighting/slowing the process. I'm really on the fence and not sure at this time what the best course of action is concerning the answering or ignoring of the summons.

Thanks for taking the time to share your thought !

[WhatMoney]

BTW, Welcome to Oregon! (even if you are from So. CA).

[neworld]

OK, originally you said US Bank in California. One thing about US Bank. If they are searching for your wife's account in CA, and happen to include your name because of the community property law in CA, then they could walk into any US Bank in CA with a garnishment order, and US Bank would search and find your new account in OR. But they would have to have some reason to serve US Bank first.

A local or regional Bank that does NO business in CA would complicate their search. However even if they did find your new OR account they can't seize it. They could subpoena it though along with your wife's CA account if they suspected fraud. A very long shot - I hope the amount is not much. If you were trying to hide $500,000 from your wife's account I figure you'd have already asked your lawyer.

Sorry should have more clear about the CA Banks, sounds like I should look for a small Central Oregon/Oregon Bank to hold our money then.

Wish I had 500K in the joint bank account, I wouldn't probably be in this position. It is enough though that either states exemptions wouldn't cover it and we plan on using that money to get a god start here in wonderful Central Oregon.

Thanks Much I appreciate the time and thought people like you are putting in your replies.

[neworld]

BTW, Welcome to Oregon! (even if you are from So. CA).

Thanks this has been our dream to move up here for some time now, circumstances just pushed it forward and we couldn't be happier now, just need to get through the credit mayhem of the next 4-6 months.

[treehugger1]

Here is a link to the Oregon Fraudulent Transfer statutes. Generally, if you have a monetary judgment against you, you are free to do what you want with exempt assets.

Here is the definition of "asset" from the statutes:

(2) “Asset” means property of a debtor but does not include:

(a) Property to the extent that it is encumbered by a valid lien;

(b) Property to the extent that it is generally exempt under nonbankruptcy law; or

(c) An interest in property held in tenancy by the entirety to the extent that it is not subject to process by a creditor holding a claim against only one tenant.

http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/095.html

Cheers and good reading.

Oh yes, welcome to Oregon, The Last Weird Place. (I think Ken Kesey summarized Oregon as such.)