Can CA refuse to give their address?

[optimistic1]

In some states it is indeed illegal to impersonate a lawyer. In Georgia if you claim to be a lawyer and are not you can be charged with the unauthorized practice of law, even if you were only representing yourself.

Yeah, that would be like if I made some business cards saying I was a BK attorney or a accident/injury lawyer handing out advice and charging money for it. Prime examples of unauthorized practice of law are below. And even if you would be caught doing these types of practices, most end up being served a cease and desist letter, and that is the end of it. But if you are calling some slum collector acting like a lawyer so you can get their address? Cmon. The ABA doesnt even define what practice of law really is, but for the most part, unauthorized practice of law is to protect the public from consequences resulting "from the erroneous preparation of legal documents or the inaccurate legal advice given by persons untrained in the law." Thats not what I suggested.



These include:

an individual who collected substantial fees from the families of incarcerated convicts for wholly ineffective legal documents that purportedly would result in the prisoner's early release;

immigration advisors who provide to aliens residing in Wisconsin incomplete and improper legal advice that exposed them to the loss of legal jobs and potential deportation;

a surveyor who drafted a document that erroneously created an unauthorized easement and encumbrance that imposed substantial costs on a third party;

an individual who charged extremely high fees for canned revocable trusts that failed to achieve a primary goal of such an arrangement - avoiding probate.



ORIGINAL POSTER.

Yes, that is the main address and their correspondence mailing address, you dont need to mail your cease and desist letter to the place where they are calling you from.

[Bell30656]

Obviously Optimistic doesn't have a grasp on the legal system. If you start representing yourself as an attorney and are not, you will not be served with any cease & desist letter. You will be given a ride in a chauffeur driven patrol car to the Gray Bar Inn, where you will spend an all expense paid vacation.

Feel free to check out this link so you can see the actual state laws of each state for practicing law without a license. Lawyers, judges and prosecutors take the practicing of law without a license serious because well, they are lawyers and members of the bar.

http://www.abanet.org/cpr/model-def/...f_statutes.pdf

So you get those business cards made and just wait by the mailbox for that cease and desist letter.

[optimistic1]

OMG, your gonna get me in trouble on here,

Let me know when you find some slum collection agency that is just waiting for people to call them falsely identifying themselves as an attorney, to which they go all the way to your home state to sue you in court, they wont even sue people for huge debts that they signed contracts for, are you freaking kidding me? If they got you thrown in jail, then how can they collect $$$ from you? Thank you for the link, that will come in handy. Can you cite any actual case law supporting your theory?

and BTW, are you related to BIGBOY2U?

[Bell30656]

Site actual case law to support my theory? The fact that it is against the law isn't enough for you? Suggesting that the OP tell the collection agent that they are an attorney is telling them to violate the law. Since just about every collection call is recorded you have now given the collection agent everything that they would need to have some good leverage over you. The collection agent could then simply forward a copy of the recorded call to the district attorney's office for prosecution.

I am related to no one on this forum. I just call them like I see them. I believe that the post telling the OP to violate the law was wrong and stepped in to bring that fact to light. Whether or not the state would actually prosecute someone for it may be a different kettle of fish altogether. It is still a violation of law that could get you arrested in just about every state.

One should never identify themselves as an attorney, if in fact that person is not actually licensed to practice law. It is much better to do some internet research and get an address to which you could serve them at.

[optimistic1]

You're telling me, that a slummy collector, with people they pull off the street with not even a high school diploma and pay minimum wage, are that motivated? That they are just sitting there waiting to pounce on someone, and that a district attorney in some state you don't even live in would even be the slightest bit interested in going out of state to prosecute someone who simply wanted a mailing address? I just cant stop laughing, I'm sorry. Your point is taken but it just doesn't make any sense as to what I suggested doing, the example I gave, is not a good example of unauthorized practice of law and you know it.

Again, if a collector wont even bother suing you for a $10k debt, why would they bother reporting it to a DA for their state to get you thrown in jail so they cant collect a dime from you? What DA has that much time and resources on their hands that they will fly someone out of state to go looking for someone to slap them with a misdemeanor?? Cmon already.

I'm not arguing my point anymore, unauthorized practice of law is one thing, calling up a collector and acting like a lawyer to get an address is another, yeah in your book its something different, I get it.

Let me know when you find some case law to support your theory, I will even help you find some case law, how about that.

[optimistic1]

BTW, your Georgia state law never uses the word "impersonate", nor does it apply to the public, it clearly states that the rules apply to "Domestic Lawyer". See RULE 5.5
If your gonna post stuff, make sure its verbatim.

What constitutes the “practice of law” is an issue which is necessarily
central to any discussion of enforcement of UPL laws. Neither the Business and Professions Code, nor any other statute, comprehensively defines the practice of law for all purposes. Over the years this has raised questions about the precise parameters of the legal profession. But the Supreme Court and courts of appeals have knowingly crafted a broad definition of law practice suited to grow with the profession.

The Supreme Court has described the evolution of this definition:
As early as 1922, before the passage of the modern State Bar Act, the
Supreme Court adopted the definition of “practice of law” used in an Indiana
case: (People v. Merchants Protective Corp. (1922) 189 Cal. 531,535, quoting Eley v. Miller (1893) 7 Ind.
App. 529

As the term is generally understood, the practice of the law is the doing
and performing services in a court of justice in any matter

[WhatMoney]

Well, a bill collector cannot falsely represent himself. $1000 civil penalty if proven. But it's OK for you to do so?
FDCPFalse or misleading representations(3) The false representation or implication that any individual is an attorney or that any communication is from an attorney.
...
(10) The use of any false representation or deceptive means to collect or attempt to collect any debt or to obtain information concerning a consumer.

[optimistic1]

Sure i could, because unauthorized practice of law and just calling yourself an attorney are two different things.

The fdcpa is one thing, upl violations are another. Im not practicing law in a court system, or drawing up legal documents. Sorry, but your comparison is defunct. A consumer doesn't have to abide by the same rules set forth in the fdcpa that binds bill collectors. If a consumer is being harrassed by endless phone calls and the agency refuses to provide them with a mailing address so that they can utilize their consumer protection rights, then yes I think it is absolutely without a doubt "OK" for me to call them up and act like an attorney to get an address.

Next.

[Bell30656]

I haven't seen any cases of where someone was prosecuted for adultery either but it is still illegal in some places. The point is you are giving someone advice telling them it is okay to break what may be the law in his/her state by purporting to be something that they are not; an attorney, based upon the fact that you have not seen any cases where someone was prosecuted for it.

Just admit it was bad advice and move on... or at least move on.

[optimistic1]

It isn't based off that there is no case law, rather the Supreme Court definition, you should read it a bit more before re-arguing your point all over again.

Obviously you didn't bother reading my entire post about what the Supreme Court considers UPL. Therefore, it was not bad advice, because it would have worked, and the collection agency would never bother doing all these things you are purporting. No DA in some state is gonna come across state lines to come and get you for a UPL violation, when it really isn't a UPL violation. Admit that you are wrong, your theory has no base, and you have no factual evidence or case law to prove it. CA's are much more interested in collecting from you, than throwing you in jail, so I still fail to see your overall point?

Where again in Georgia's UPL laws does it use the word impersonate, that's what you posted. I still cant find it. You should also heed your own advice.

[GoingDown]

Well, a bill collector cannot falsely represent himself. $1000 civil penalty if proven. But it's OK for you to do so?
FDCPFalse or misleading representations
A debt collector may not use any false, deceptive, or misleading representation or means in connection with the collection of any debt. Without limiting the general application of the foregoing, the following conduct is a violation of this section:

(1) The false representation or implication that the debt collector is vouched for, bonded by, or affiliated with the United States or any State, including the use of any badge, uniform, or facsimile thereof.
(2) The false representation of—
(A) the character, amount, or legal status of any debt; or
(B) any services rendered or compensation which may be lawfully received by any debt collector for the collection of a debt.
(3) The false representation or implication that any individual is an attorney or that any communication is from an attorney.
...
(10) The use of any false representation or deceptive means to collect or attempt to collect any debt or to obtain information concerning a consumer.

Remember, the debt collector called you. You didn't call the debt collector demanding money. The FDCPA does NOT apply to what debtors say over the phone.

One time, a number of years ago, a debt collector called me and after a brief conversation became very rude to me, so I called her every filthy word I knew of at the time and then hung up the phone.

About 5 minutes later, her supervisor called back and told me they had recorded everything I said on the phone and that I had violated several federal and state laws and that they were going to press charges against me and that I should expect a cop to arrive at my door very soon.

I was scared. Very scared. I thought for sure I was going to jail. I kept thinking the noises I heard out in front of my house were the cops getting ready to pick me up. And soon I would be hearing them pounding on my front door.

I was a naive twenty two year old. I didn't know any better.

So, I talked to my uncle, an attorney, about it. He laughed and said, "They called you. You can say anything you want back at them because they initiated the phone call."

So, I sent the collection agency a Cease and Desist Letter and never heard from them again. And the police never came to pick me up and put me in jail. Remember they lie and use empty threats all the time. Every time a debt collector opens their mouth you should assume they are lying.

Now, my advise still stands... it is best to never speak to debt collectors on the phone. They may get information about your assets, your employment situation, checking account, etc. over the phone from you. So, it is always best to just hang up the phone and let the answering machine or voice mail screen all your calls.

I think we might have some debt collector trolls on this forum who are posing as debtors and trying to scare people needlessly.