Chase Debt Validation ( not exactly)

[clo]

I sent a request disputing the validity of the chase account and asked that they verify the account and produce signed authorization for each charge.

Their response was 104 pages of statement information showing us the charges and said if we see anything we do not agree with then it need to disupute it 60 days from the statement date which most has passed.

Can they send their own statements to qualify as debt validation? What should I do next? I'm thinking I should write back saying I dispute every charge and request validation of each charge again.

It is a Chase card with Business Account listed on it and does not show on any of my wife's credit reports.

[treehugger1]

Did you request the debt validation from Chase or from a collection agency? Chase was under no obligation to send you anything, but they may have to be sure they are crossing all their "t's." To answer your question in a short manner, "what they sent you is probably enough." If they actually file suit, then you might get away with answering and requesting an original signed contract. I say you might get away with asking for this, because some judges can be creditor-friendly and others might favor a debtor. In addition, if you were sued and had to provide an answer to the suit, you should start studying your state's legal procedures. Every state has its own rules for legal procedure. Keep in mind that this is NOT a forum that can offer you legal advice. We can offer insight, experience, and our own opinions on how things play out.

I'm guessing that you requested that Chase send you the info. They were kind to send you what they did.

The real question at hand..."Is it your debt?" If it is, then only you can decide whether or not to answer a suit should one be filed against you.

[treehugger1]

Clo, They don't have to give you a "signed authorization" for each charge. If you are disputing some of the charges, and those are not your charges, then you should file the complaint on the charges you dispute. It sounds as if you are attempting to find some way to not pay a debt you owe. I'm still confused by your original post.

In another post you complained that Chase had not charged off your account. I'm guessing that if 180 days has passed since first default, the account did charge off. They still have the right to collect on the debt.

What is it that you wish to attempt? Are you trying to buy more time before filing? Is the debt not yours? Do you think you can completely walk away from a debt that is yours? While this may be in a few cases that folks post on the web, I doubt that it is simple to walk away from a debt you know is yours.

Again, what are you attempting to accomplish?

[clo]

treehugger1,

In my other post I asked someone who was further along in the collection process what the time was for them to charge off or offer a settlement amount at 6 months. It is not my debt. It is my wife's card. She is just missing her first payment. She recognizes some of the charges but not others when looking at the statements.

The intent is to try to settle on the card. They started killing her with 29.99% due to a late pay to another creditor that showed up on her credit report that ended up as a snowball effect. I have read that some have settled with them for 35% of the balance with Chase and has been reported on several forums. We cannot afford 1200.00 a month payments especially when it would do very little to the balance. We are hoping that she will not have to file bk and that she can settle before that. So some of the charges may or may not be hers but either way if we can settle the debt for 35% by the time we skip min payments for 5 or 6 months we can save that up and settle the debt for good instead of paying min payments for interest only and still owe a balance she can no longer afford. If she is able to do this before the file suit and work out a settlement than she can avoid a judgment and filing bk.

I'm somewhat troubled by the way your post came across as far as you asking if I was trying to get out of a valid debt. I assume that I may have taken it wrong. To answer you question directly as stated before there are a lot of charges she does not recognize that seem to be internet charges but yes there are valid charges on the account. If we can get out of the debt valid or not then yes that would be great. Unless I mistook this forum the last time I checked it was made of mostly members who have got themselves into a bad way with debt for one reason or another. These members seek to "get out" of the valid debts they owe through bk protection or other means. Regardless of how one chooses to get to the out of debt finish line unless they pay 100% of the debt they owe
at the end of the day we are all "getting out" of valid debts we owe. The way it came across sounded like an overzealous collection agent trying to insult someone into paying the debt. If I have misunderstood your intent I apologize. I have no beef with anyone here just looking for input. Thanks

[klandsb]

Yes, they may or may not settle at some point but for the 5 or 6 mths u dont pay they will be adding on late fees and outrageous interest so you will end up owing alot more then u do now and 35% w/not be as good then as it is now...
I was intent on settleling w/a debt relief agency and I imagine I am in the majority of there clients that end up having to file bankruptcy. Its just a no win game u play while everything thing keeps adding up and then u look and say OMG look where I am at and how the heck am I gonna get out of this financial disaster...

[StartingOver08]

If you are looking to settle just this one account, maybe you should ask Chase about their hardship program instead. They will reduce the rate to 2% (or 4%) or maybe even zero now (since I did the hardship program two yrs ago). They will go out as far as five years. Because the interest is so low, the monthly payment drops to a reasonable amount.

Of course, you can not use the account anymore and they want a direct draft from your account. You might consider having them draft off a prepaid card rather than from your actual bank account to be safe.

Don't talk to the CSR's, they do NOT have the authority to put you into a hardship program, only the hardship dept can do that. It took me quite a while to actually get thru to the hardship dept, the CSR's don't make it easy. But once you are there, they are very helpful.

[treehugger1]

clo, yes I know how these posts and email can sound at times. I would not be too concerned about whether or not the debt has been charged off. But, if there are "thefts/illegal" charges to your account, you might want to contact your local district attorney's office. If there are illegal charges, then such use of another's credit card without consent is a felony in most states. But, before you go down that road, you wan tto be very sure the charges are not legitimate.

I'm not anywhere close to a CA (LOL.) But, I believe in another post you stated that some of the charges "might not" be hers. I would get on this immediately and get law enforcement involved if such is the case.

Chase, like Citi, does have reasonable hardship programs. They are not a bad deal if you only have one or two accounts that you stopped paying, but if you have many accounts and you make an agreement with one, can you make an agreement you can afford with all of them? In my case, I could not. I worked and tried very hard, but in the end I just let everything default.

[StartingOver08]

Treehugger is right. The hardship program is good if you are talking about one or possibly two accounts. But if you have many accounts it is difficult to get all of them on a hardship program that will work for you.

[clo]

Thanks for the response everyone. I spoke with the CSR's with Chase and they did not want to play ball at all for the most part. Now she is just not going late with them so they did not have a lot of motivation before either. Now they got the DV request and she is late so they are burning the phone up and are repetitive. I sent them a cease and desist letter other than written. So they will already be on her credit report for 7 years due to the late payment. She is now unemployed and our money and property are separated by a marriage contract. They will not allow her for a hardship program according to them because she has no income now. In order to use my income they want me to sign on board and that would cost both of us our credit and make a bad deal worse.

So it seems the options are: a lump sum settlement with enough time passing to motivate them, stiff them 100% and hope they do not file suit and wait for 7 years topass or dispute, let them file suit get judgment and hope they do not renew it in 10 years, hope they sell the account to a CA and hope for a good deal settlement with the CA who buys the account or have her file bk if need be as a last resort.

[BigJohn]

I sent a request disputing the validity of the chase account and asked that they verify the account and produce signed authorization for each charge.

Their response was 104 pages of statement information showing us the charges and said if we see anything we do not agree with then it need to disupute it 60 days from the statement date which most has passed.

Can they send their own statements to qualify as debt validation? What should I do next? I'm thinking I should write back saying I dispute every charge and request validation of each charge again.

It is a Chase card with Business Account listed on it and does not show on any of my wife's credit reports.

You can dispute every charge. The merchant will have to produce copies of the sale with your signature, etc. or an explanation why the merchant did not get your signature.

[StartingOver08]

OP, I told you the CSR's do not have the power to put her in the hardship program. They do not make it easy to get to the hardship dept, but talking to a CSR about hardship is a receipe for disaster. They have no power to put her into the hardship program. So why talk to them?

She has to get thru to the hardship dept in order to get on the program. It does not make since to file BK over one account.

BTW if it is her account, she is the one that needs to speak to the hardship dept. Do not sign onto the account for her. Then you are stepping from the pan into the fire. When she is working with the hardship dept they will ask about HH income anyway. Right now you are not obligated on her account based on your post, but they must consider the HH income.

[BigJohn]

You can dispute every charge. The merchant will have to produce copies of the sale with your signature, etc. or an explanation why the merchant did not get your signature.

The 8th easiest way to win a chargeback from a merchant is to have the merchant produce the receipt with your signature according to Visa. If the signature does not match with what is on your card, it can be used as grounds for a chargeback (code 81 of Visa Merchant's agreement).


A lot of merchants use thermal paper which after a short period of time, deterioriates in many cases in regards to readability. Some merchants have a really crappy method of saving receipts so that can work in one's favor also.


If a merchant receives a chargeback, they have within 30 days to provide proof.

As for how far back in time you can go with a chargeback - generally 180 days. 45 days with paypal. Debit cards is generally 10 days.

But if the merchant is suspected of doing fraudulent business practices, a lot of card services will extend the time.

[Penny Less]

If SHE tells them she is sick and can't pay and doesn't have a hope of paying anytime soon until she's better and oh whatever will she do she feels so bad but has to focus on her health right now....

Then they'll put you through to the hardship program. You can't ask for it by name - it doesn't exist. ;-) It may take several tries with different reps.

// Was sick once and tried to "work things out" without mentioning illness, failed
/// Not having health insurance == extra pity points, learned that too
//// Everyone but WAMU seems to have a hardship department. Citi's is the best - so is Dell Financials
///// Still filing chapter 7 anyway

[clo]

Thanks everyone.

I appreciate the warning Bigboy2u. I disagree that we are not in the position to dictate the CC company what is going to happen. You see in my state a marriage contract will forbid them from touching me. She also opened and ran the balance up well before we were married. Either of the 2 means there is no way thay can do me jack. The card was listed as a business account but she did not apply under a business name but under her name. I have seen other forums report this as a standard practice by Chase. So there would be no business associated with account. It just says Business Card under her name. They do not have even her married name. She is about to be rid of the only asset she does have and has no equity anyway. They do not even have an addy on her to serve her with a suit as they only have a PO Box and if they do not find her for 3 years they miss their chance here to sue her at all. Even if they find her and get judgment she is not going back to work. She was basically working to pay her debts before. Now that it has reached this point it does not matter. 0 debts and 0 income wash. So with no income, no plan for going back to work, no assetts, no address and a no show on the credit report I cannot think of any good reason not to challenge them every step of the way. Even if they do get judgment in the event they can find her and force her to accept suit then they have nothing to attach to and no way to object to anything as she has no reason to file bk. She is judgment proof or bullet proof in this case.

Please advise if you know of anything else they can do based on that as I always like an extra set of eyes that may see something I don't.

[clo]

LOL still not scared. We like high stakes. I will check with our lawyer who did our marriage contract today an post back and let you know what he says. He is a family member so in the event they try to sue me I could defend fairly cheap if that happens. I did not cause this debt or have anything to do with it. The high stakes come in as she has no other choice and I'm not swallowing 30% APR on anything soI guess it is sink instead of swim.

I hear what you are saying but you may want to check into other forums that deal with settlement with CC's they have a lot of posts on these business accounts without any business' associated with it. The application was a phone application if I remember her telling me right. She did not check off anything other than respond to an offer they sent by mail. I wonder if they could not perhaps be sued of at least have a complaint filed agsint them for unfair business practices. If they gave consumers Business Cards without a business just to get around the FDCPA then they may have a problem. I dont know. The DV was filed.

I will leave it alone at this point and wait until they come crying for a settlement BIGBOY2U. I will keep you posted.