SOl of writing a bad check in Florida

[cleanslate01]

My happiness is tinged with a little worry! FINALLY got all my paperwork into the lawyer to file for BK.

But..... going through everything, I was reminded that we have an outstanding issue with a bad check we wrote.

I don't think a BK will protect me from this. So, here are my questions:

1) What is the SOL of bouncing a check in FL? It was over $200 and there was no intent to bounce it (not that this is an excuse).
2) We no longer live in the state, does this change anything?
3) I heard from these people over a year ago and then nothing. It was 1 notice in a sea of weekly collection agency letters - hence it filtered to the bottom of my priority pile. Should I reopen this or let it be? I wonder if I would be doing myself more harm than good if the SOL is almost up.


ADVICE? PLEASE? I feel like I've overcome a huge hurdle today by getting out my paperwork but now I'm nervous about this. Thank you so much!

[backtoschool]

Writing a bad check for over $150 is a third degree felony with a SOL of 3 years. I got this from the Florida govt website. Here is the link.

http://www.sao17.state.fl.us/badchecks.htm

That being said, if you write a bad check, you get put in telecheck and chexsystems, and chexsystems keeps you in their files for 5 years. It is almost impossible to get a new bank account if you are in checksystems.

[StartingOver08]

Add the bad check to your debt in the petition. It is a debt and is dischargeable unless certain circumstances apply. The creditor has to object and file a AP to make the debt non-dischargeable. It will cost them $$$ to file. Unless the funds are substantial, it is not worth the additional time, effort and money the creditor has to spend. There are certain elements that have to be present to make this debt non-dischargeable. Intent is a material part of making the debt non-dischargeable. I am assuming that you made a mistake. The court has certain standards to determine intent. See the article below:

How does a bankruptcy court treat an NSF debt in bankruptcy? May a vendor use the nondischargability provisions to have their claim survive bankruptcy? The bankruptcy court in In re Beza considered the topic.

Bad Checks And Bankruptcy In Action

In In re Beza, the debtor, a sole proprietor, presented two checks to a creditor and, in exchange, the creditor provided cash. The debtor dosed the checking account and withdrew the remaining funds. When the creditor presented the checks to the debtor's bank for payment the checks were returned unpaid and marked "account closed." The debtor filed personal bankruptcy, seeking to discharge the bad checks. The creditor filed a nondischargable action with the bankruptcy court, seeking to have the bad check debts survive the bankruptcy discharge.

The bankruptcy court looked to the nondischargeability provisions of the Bankruptcy Code in considering whether the NSF debt survived bankruptcy. A creditor proceeding under the nondischargeability provision of Section 523(a)(2) of the Bankruptcy Code must prove the following elements:

(1) the debtor made false representations; (2) the debtor knew the representations to be false; (3) the debtor made the representations with the intention of deceiving the creditor; (4) the creditor relied on the representations; and (5) the creditor sustained the alleged injury as the proximate result of the representations.
As to the first element, courts have found that delivery of an ultimately dishonored check, without more, may not constitute an actionable representation under Section 523(a)(2). If the surrounding circumstances indicate that the debtor intended to deceive the vendor when using an insufficient funds check, and when the debtor knew that sufficient funds did not exist, a debtor is not entitled to discharge the debt. The court concluded that the debtor impliedly represented to the vendor that sufficient funds existed to cover the checks, which representation was obviously false.

The second element required that the debtor knew the representation was false when made. The court noted that when the debtor issued checks totaling nearly $20,000 to the creditor, the account upon which the checks were drawn had a balance of a few hundred dollars. Because of the substantial discrepancy between the amount of the checks presented to the creditor and the amount of funds in the account, the court concluded that the debtor knew the implied representation that he possessed sufficient funds to cover the checks was false.
Direct evidence of the third element of intent usually does not exist. The court concluded that the substantial discrepancy between the amounts of the checks presented to the creditor by the debtor, and the amount in the account shows that the debtor possessed the intent to deceive.

The fourth element requires a showing that the creditor relied on the representations. The court concluded that the creditor relied on the debtor's representation that there were sufficient funds in the account to cover the checks, and that such reliance was not unreasonable given the debtor's status as a neighboring business owner.

Finally, the fifth element required for nondischargeability is that the creditor sustained the alleged injury as a result of the representations having been made. The debtor's misrepresentations caused the creditor to suffer the loss of the $19,000 in exchange for the checks. The court found the debt nondischargeable.

To read the entire article:

http://www.allbusiness.com/accounting/fraud/4067071-1.html

I don't know the details of your situation, but you can see from the case above the creditor has to do a lot to get the check amount to be non-dischargeable! You are probably safe.

[StartingOver08]

You can get your chexsystems report cleaned up once you file and your are discharged. Look at this thread: http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.ph...ht=chexsystems

[cleanslate01]

Thank you! So, since this was back in Dec 2007, almost 2 years have passed already. I got ONE collection notice from Bennett DeLonley and Noyes in Salt Lake City, UT. I haven't heard since then. Don't know what that means. Not like I dropped off the planet or anything.

According to a 3 year statue of limitations, this will all go away on 12/19/10. That's about a year from now.

I guess I'm just terrified I'd be put in jail over this. Sigh.

[backtoschool]

You can get your chexsystems report cleaned up once you file and your are discharged. Look at this thread: http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.ph...ht=chexsystems

You cannot get bad checks cleared out of chexsystems, only bank accounts in good standing that were closed by a bank because you bk'ed a credit card and the bank wouldn't let you close the account. Bad checks will still stay in chexsystems unless they happened because the bank closed the account because you bk'ed a credit card or loan with them.

[StartingOver08]

Actually I was going by the information in the thread that I posted. I did not have that experience myself so I have not worked with chexsystems. According to the thread that I posted, the people there were able to clear their report by providing a copy of their discharge to chexsystems. I certainly do not want to provide bad information. Did you provide your discharge to chexsystems yet?

[backtoschool]

Actually I was going by the information in the thread that I posted. I did not have that experience myself so I have not worked with chexsystems. According to the thread that I posted, the people there were able to clear their report by providing a copy of their discharge to chexsystems. I certainly do not want to provide bad information. Did you provide your discharge to chexsystems yet?

I contacted chexsystems to find out their policy since my CU will not let me close my account because I am including a credit card from them.

So I got my information directly from Chexsystems and have posted it in another post on another thread. If you search by my username you will find it.

Why the sarcasm?

[StartingOver08]

Sorry, I did not mean to come off as sarcastic.

I wonder though, since the people in the thread were successful in removing the checks from their report if it isn't worth trying to do so. If it does not work, then the OP will have lost nothing. If it works, then the OP will gain a clear report.

[cleanslate01]

Man, I have just given up on chexsystems. I don't even bother - it is what it is. However, a year after I bounced that check, I was able to open a basic checking account at National City. So, I'm not too concerned. I've kept my finances in order since then.

Honestly! I feel like Chexsystems is the least of my problems. Kinda like when the debt collector called me and asked for a credit card payment for a $16,000 debt. He says, "Ma'am, if you don't take care of this today, it will negatively affect your credit". I couldn't help it...I SNORTED. Then I told him, "Mister, I know you have a job to do and you've been really nice so I'm going to just calmly tell you this. I lost my house. I had a 5 month old baby at the time and just found out I was 2 months pregnant. My employer was laying off left and right. I lost everything of monetary value in the last 2 years, including my retirement nest egg. I had to go through the CHANGE JAR this week to get my husband gas money. Do you REALLY think reporting me to the credit bureau is gonna make much of a difference right now?".

I have to prioritize the craziness in my life. Small doses....

[backtoschool]

Sorry, I did not mean to come off as sarcastic.

It's all cool, StartingOver08 . I read the thread you linked to and I see where you are coming from, but I am an overly cautious type, and I was really annoyed that my CU would not let me close my account, so I contacted chexsystems to see what my rights would be once I was discharged. Being in Chexsystems after discharge is not a fresh start, lol.

[StartingOver08]

It's ok! I'd say go have a glass of wine, but its only 8:45 am here! LOL

[backtoschool]

Man, I have just given up on chexsystems. I don't even bother - it is what it is. However, a year after I bounced that check, I was able to open a basic checking account at National City. So, I'm not too concerned. I've kept my finances in order since then.

Honestly! I feel like Chexsystems is the least of my problems. Kinda like when the debt collector called me and asked for a credit card payment for a $16,000 debt. He says, "Ma'am, if you don't take care of this today, it will negatively affect your credit". I couldn't help it...I SNORTED. Then I told him, "Mister, I know you have a job to do and you've been really nice so I'm going to just calmly tell you this. I lost my house. I had a 5 month old baby at the time and just found out I was 2 months pregnant. My employer was laying off left and right. I lost everything of monetary value in the last 2 years, including my retirement nest egg. I had to go through the CHANGE JAR this week to get my husband gas money. Do you REALLY think reporting me to the credit bureau is gonna make much of a difference right now?".

I have to prioritize the craziness in my life. Small doses....

I totally relate. If I thought about all the work it is going to be to dig out of my mess fully, I would have never started. I am relieved to hear that you have a checking account, and are set with that. Given that the SOL is over in a year or so and you are in a different state, and you have a checking account, I don't see any major issues regarding the bounced check.

[cleanslate01]

Thanks for all the advice. I've just found some more paperwork and I think I'm gonna puke. Will call the lawyer and see what he says. This is a lot worse than I thought.

I didn't mention it all before because I was embarrassed but after coming clean to the lawyer via email, I figure what the hell do I have to lose by telling you guys?

I found some more collection notices. At first glance, I thought these were duplicates, but they are not. On two separate days (2 months apart), I lost it and went to a casino in a desperate attempt to get out of this hellhole. Stupid. Yes, please don't run it in. I wrote a total of 5 checks for about $4,500. They all bounced. The funds were in my account at the time I wrote them, but not by the time they were cashed. I honestly THOUGHT I paid the first set. Not sure how the casino even approved the second visit's checks if I had outstanding bounced checks. But, I don't think I did. I can't remember and don't know how to even check this without calling the collection agency. This was such a bad time in our lives, financially, that I admit things are a little blurry. We were combining bank accounts because we got married. I was closing other accounts. We just lost our house. Sigh. No excuse. Just saying that I really don't remember what I paid and what I didn't!!

So, now I'm terrified that they are going to issue a warrant for my arrest in the state of Florida. The SOL on these is 3 years. Almost 2 years have passed already. I don't know what to do and I'm terrified. I had NO idea this was a felony until I started researching whether or not I could have these discharged in bankruptcy! I'm wondering if this amount and/or the fact that it is multiple checks will make it worth their while to find me in Indiana. Now I'm hysterical crying that I have made an awful mistake that I can not correct.