I think I just made a collector cry....

[BigJohn]

You are right, Police reports do not lie.


Recently, one person in our community complained about their property taxes. I have talked to those characters before so I know how they can be. Any ways, they turned around and called the cops on him. When he refused to answer the door, they brought in more cops. Then they brought in some SWAT teams and even a tank.

After a lengthy standoff, they assaulted his house.

All at the same time, on the west side of the house they threwed an ammo can with 2 tear gas grenades thru the house and on the east side of the house they hit one window with 5 bean bags and another window with 7 bean bags. None of the bean bags enetered the house because of a shading material he had over the windows. One beanbag hit the corner of the window and bounced back and hit one of the cops. He claimed immediately he was hit. 3 SWAT team members who were under radio silence, were given the order to take the suspect out. They got him.

Where was he? He was seated in a chair outside looking at his house. 3 rounds got him in the back - each round about 3" across. They used special ammo as if they were assaulting a hijack airplane.



The kicker to all of this is he was in my store the day before this all happened and asked for me. I wasn't there. I was eating breakfast.


It is amazing how something beneigned can end up being fatal.

[OhioFiler]

The moral of this story is: Pay your property taxes on time!

[treehugger1]

Wow! I also want to read the story. Please provide us with some kind of link to this story. This would definitely have made the news and the internet!

[BigJohn]

So you want to throw up a link to the local news paper or media that covered the story, something of this magnitude would have made the news. Or is this just another story with no factual basis and we have no choice but to only believe what you wrote. You post all these "incredible" instances of things that happen but yet there is never any thing to substantiate the story.

John, how about you get your copy of that police report when all these cops came to your house, redact your personal information and throw a copy of it on photo bucket so we can all see how really bad Citi is?

Also what "character" did you talk to and "how they can be" what does that mean? So your saying one person in your community complained about property taxes and as a result of complaining the police were called? Who called the police on what grounds? So the police then obtained a search warrant to enter this mans house because he complained over his property taxes?

Then you say he was outside the whole time in a chair while the SWAT Team assaulted the house and them three SWAT Team member "under radio silence" then shot him in the back and fatally wounded him.

So, all in all, a man complained about his propriety taxes and was shot in the back and killed sitting in a chair in his back yard by three SWAT team members while the rest of the SWAT team made a full assault on his house?

WOW I know there had to have been a ton of news media on that event. What city is this in I sure would like to read the story that is just insane!!

BigBoy2U, I am not going to post a police report involving myself. I think you have gone to far in this matter.



As for the man that got shot by the police: I do not want to give out that information because on some of the news clips, I was interviewed and the name of my store was mentioned.

I have not looked at the rules for this board, but demanding a person to post personal information generally is a serious no-no on other boards.




Now that this thread has been hi-jacked, let's see if we can get back to what the thread was all bout.

[lrprn]

I did find a link to this story in the Arizona Daily Star dated August 24. However, the story stated in part that:

"Officers found Bryan in the front yard with his handgun.

Bryan went inside and remained in the home, unwilling to surrender to police. After more than seven hours with police surrounding his house, Bryan walked out a back door and shot at officers, who returned fire.

One officer suffered minor injuries when a bullet fired by another officer struck his helmet.

Bryan was originally upset over his property-tax bill, but the problems escalated after police arrived, said Sgt. Diana Lopez, a Tucson Police Department spokeswoman.
He made many comments throughout the standoff and did not refer to the tax bill during the incident, Lopez said.

"There was a lot of irrational talk throughout the incident that did not indicate anything specific," she said.

He never showed a desire to negotiate with police, she said.

According to a Tucson police report, Bryan told officers that he would make the officers shoot him because he knew he would die that day.

He also told officers that he would shoot any officer who came near his home, the report states.

"His indications were that he did not plan to end it peacefully," Lopez said."

From this story it sounds to me like the man was doing a lot more than just being "....seated in a chair outside looking at his house." He was actively shooting at the police and refused to surrender his gun.

And that's the reason there's been nothing in the national media about it. It was just one more police standoff with a poor outcome because the individual involved did not cooperate with reasonable police instructions. It's a sad case for sure.

[MiSSMaGoo]

A few months ago, Citibank had the police check upon me. Three police cars showed up!

I finally got around to get Citibank's side of the story - they have no record such an event ever took place.

Funny, the police report says differently.



I mentioned to Citi that they disclosed to the Police that I was behind on my mortgage [second]. They said it never hppened. They don't divulge to third parties confidential information.

Funny, the police report says differently.

That's insane! They were crazy with me too, not that crazy though. They kept calling my cell when I was at work so I forwarded all my calls back their local office so everytime they'd call me it would route back to them. I thought it was funny.

[OhioFiler]

The article reads like the guy had significant mental health issues. Sadly, suicide by cop isn't that rare.

BigJohn...I'm not sure where you got your version of the story but it reads like a fabrication on some anarchist website in contrast to the newspaper article.

[catleg]

Like most things, this comes down to trusting the source of information. Although it is published in a newspaper, which lends credibility to the "official" story, which is basically "suicide by cop", it sure seems like there is a lot of missing information here. If this guy was my relative, I would certainly be asking for a deeper investigation of what went down here.

On the other hand, when you see the SWAT team and their robot outside, maybe it really is just time to surrender.

[OhioFiler]

Like most things, this comes down to trusting the source of information. Although it is published in a newspaper, which lends credibility to the "official" story, which is basically "suicide by cop", it sure seems like there is a lot of missing information here. If this guy was my relative, I would certainly be asking for a deeper investigation of what went down here.

On the other hand, when you see the SWAT team and their robot outside, maybe it really is just time to surrender.

Whatever is missing from the published story couldn't possibly change the story to match BigJohn's version.


All I'd have to see is one cop with a Tazer or pepper spray and my hands would be straight up!

[BigJohn]

The article reads like the guy had significant mental health issues. Sadly, suicide by cop isn't that rare.

BigJohn...I'm not sure where you got your version of the story but it reads like a fabrication on some anarchist website in contrast to the newspaper article.

I went to the crime scene and none of the news media did.

I went with another person and we met the executor of the estate at the door. We examined what happened. This is what we found.

What I found that was disturbing was 3 holes, about 3" across in the back of the chair that was facing the back of the house. I went over to the back of the house which had a converted back porch with a screen door on it. On the screen was small pieces of flesh. I checked inside, no bullet holes. I lined up the chair with the screen and visually lined up to locate the source of whatever hit him came from. It was from the corner of an enclosed carport that was behind him, from a laying down position.

The impact of the bullets, lower back, hurled his lower body forward and according to the outlined drawn, his head was about 1 foot from the chair and his feet were pointing toward the back of the house. Where his head laid was a broken piece of cement. The breakage of the cement looked like he might have been shot by somebody standing over him when he was down. The way the diagram was drawn, it looks like if he did get shot again, it hit him on the left side of his head.

The other person that was with me had already recovered the ammo box with the two tear gas grenades. There is no doubt in my mind that these were the two tear gas grenades used on the west side of the house. The house was still saturated in tear gas. Where the ammo box was recovered, we found burn marks on the floor as a result of the heat coming from the tear gas grenades.

We went to the east side of the house and noticed one window had been hit 5 times with something big. Another window had been hit 7-8 times. One item hit near the corner of the window frame and another object may have hit the same area also. None of the objects did enter the house. He had some special shading material on his windows. The material ripped some and the material moved forward so as to break the windows, but none entered the house. We looked for evidence of what was used. We found 40 mm wading in the shrubs. The 40 mm wading is consistent with the 40 mm bean bags that this police department uses.

The news media never said any of these arsenals were used. All they said was a percusion or flash bang grenade was used.

The news media claimed he came outside and shot at a police officer. The news media at the scene, showed a flash-bang, and then 3 rapid bang bangs and it was all over. The flash-bang was the teargas grenades and the bean bags being fired all at once. The bang, bang, bang was from the SWAT officers who took him out. There was no sound of him firing and there wasn't enough time for him to leave his house, close the screen door, fire at a police officer and then get shot down. If he came out of his house like they said he did, the only officers he would have seen, or could have seen, would be the officers who shot him. The back of the house would be blocking the view of the other officers.

When the police shot him, the police claimed they shot because he shot and hit one of their officers. Now the police claim he didn't shot at the officer and they also claim they do not know who did shoot at the officer, that is if somebody did shoot at it.

When the police assaulted the house, one officer immediately got hit. Why? All the ordinance they fired at the house on the east side, none entered the house. It looks like some may have hit the window frame and richocheted backwards. The property wall the police were standing behind was very near the house. The officer that was hit, was hit in the helmut. The only thing that could have hit the officer was their own stuff.

When the officer was hit, the order was given to the SWAT team snipers to take him out. They had to be in radio silence because they were very close to him. He would have heard them talking.


As for the atopsy report, that will become available in about 6 weeks. I suspect it will show he was killed from behind. Possibly one bullet wound to the head but from an angle he could not have inflicted.


I saw the search warrant and the list of what they took. The first item they took was "wooden dowels". Why this? That probably was his "gun".

Another item they took was "excess monetary items". He had some gold bars. They were gone.




What happened at this home is a classic. A complaint is sent to the police department. The police arrive at the house. The person goes inside and doesn't want to talk. More police show up. Things escalate.

More police show up. Swat shows up and then a military personnel carrier that looks like a tank shows up. There is a possibility that two of these 'tanks' showed up at this scene.

The executor of the estate showed up on the scene and insisted on talking to him. The police told him he can not talk to him. Shortly afterwards there was the assault and then 3 rapid gun fires and he was dead.

One reporter told me personally that the police had sent officers to all news outlets to intercept all calls from him. The reporter claimed the guy wanted to talk to a tax supervisor and the officer understood it to mean tac as in tactical supervisor.

The whole issue deal with taxes and for some reason, it got blown totally out of proportion.



If I was a reporter, I would have reported what I actually saw, not what I was told to write and then I would expect to be fired.


Shortly after this event, I did talk to one TV news producer who claimed it was sad that the news has become yellow journalism.

[BigJohn]

Well I think the story got embellished a bit in one version and some of the real facts came out in the other. Sometimes people tend to remember things differently even it was only three days ago. But this is why when I tell a story of anything of significance I always put a link up. It does two things, I make sure what I am saying is accurate and two if you don't believe me you can go read about it yourself. It just makes what you say more credible.

You can always add your opinion about what happened.

Can you say for a fact that both of these stories are of the same account?



Are newspaper accounts that are fed their information by the police always accurate?



Don't you think actually going to a crime scene might help in finding out what really happened?

[OhioFiler]

CSI Tucson.

[OhioFiler]

Channel 9 has a video report live from the scene.

[treehugger1]

There is always a bit more to the story.

[OhioFiler]

There is always a bit more to the story.

Not if you listened to Paul Harvey!