CitiBank is Calling-Again and Again and Again!

[SandyShores]

You can DV anyone anytime the first time. You have 30 days to DV them after they send out the first letter. Are you confusing this with a C&D? Kind of sounds like it?

Thought you could send out a DV after they first contact you and ask you for a payment. So, I gather that you don't send out a DV until after they send you something in writing. Is that correct?

SandyS

[catleg]

They're supposed to send you a letter within 5 days of initial contact.
The ethical ones send the letter first, the sleazy ones want to work you over first so they send the letter 5 days or more after initial contact.
Then you have 30 days to respond with a DV which is supposed to stop collection activity until they "validate".
If you miss the 30 day window all you have left is C&D, as well as if they do validate, usually something as simple as a statement. Wouldn't hold up in court but they consider it validation for their purposes.

[catleg]

You had me rolling on the floor with this one!

I'm hoping that if I accomplish nothing else, I cost the JDB's a few dollars.

BB, by the way I think the IRS rule is they're supposed to 1099 you after 36 months. Potentially I think this means they may wish to sell the debt before that time to escape the requirement. I know the debt buying community isn't too happy about it either. No upside for them, only downside (IRS enforcement action if they fail to comply).

[SandyShores]

They're supposed to send you a letter within 5 days of initial contact.
The ethical ones send the letter first, the sleazy ones want to work you over first so they send the letter 5 days or more after initial contact.
Then you have 30 days to respond with a DV which is supposed to stop collection activity until they "validate".
If you miss the 30 day window all you have left is C&D, as well as if they do validate, usually something as simple as a statement. Wouldn't hold up in court but they consider it validation for their purposes.

I live in California and am dealing with original creditors. Since California FDCPA extends federal FDCPA to original creditors must they send me a letter after initial contact?

SandyS

[catleg]

I thought I read something on the insideARM boards *****ing about the 36 months, but I can't locate a reference. Oh, wait a sec, here's an article explaining it:

http://www.acainternational.org/attorneys-regulations-limit-scope-of-36_month-rule-relating-to-1099_c-reporting-13326.aspx

Regulations Limit Scope of 36-Month Rule Relating to 1099-C Reporting
MAPbulletin - December 2008
December 5, 2008
Debt purchasers are no longer required to file a Form 1099-C based on non-payment of a debt during a 36-month period.

Most debt purchasers will no longer be required to file a Form 1099-C based on the sole fact payment was not made on the debt within a 36-month period. Debt purchasers are still required to file a Form 1099-C if another triggering event occurs.

The Department of Treasury issued temporary and final regulations relating to 1099-C reporting requirements. These new regulations, effective Nov. 10, 2008, will affect debt purchasers currently required to file 1099-C forms.

Relevant federal regulations require certain entities to file information statements, referred to as a 1099-C Forms, with the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) as well as with a consumer if that entity discharges an obligation to pay a debt over an amount of $600. Amendments to the federal regulations in 2004 clarified organizations engaged in the significant trade or business of lending money must comply with the 1099-C reporting requirements, including debt purchasers.

Federal regulations require that one of eight triggering events must occur in order for an entity to be required to file a Form 1099-C. One such triggering event, referred to as the 36-month rule, occurs when the creditor has not received payment of the debt within a 36-month period.

ACA International and other interested parties suggested the 36-month rule inadvertently requires debt purchasers to file a Form 1099-C even if the debt had not been discharged. The IRS and Treasury Department agreed it is appropriate to limit the application of the 36-month rule to entities for which the rule was originally intended in order to avoid premature reporting of cancellation of debt.

As a result, the new regulations eliminate this triggering requirement for debt purchasers and other entities. Most debt purchasers will no longer be required to file a Form 1099-C based on the sole fact payment was not made on the debt within a 36-month period. Debt purchasers are still required to file a Form 1099-C if another triggering event occurs.

The temporary regulations also provide clarification on filing requirements for debt purchasers in previous tax years. The regulations state debt purchasers who were required to file a Form 1099-C in a tax year prior to 2008 because of the 36-month rule, but failed to do so, the date of discharge of the debt is the first triggering event that occurred after 2007.

In addition, the Treasury Department and IRS are considering issuing guidance concerning requests to clarify the meaning of “stated principal” when it is applied to debt purchasers. A Form 1099-C must be filed for the discharge of a debt, which is any amount owed to an applicable entity, including “stated principal, fees, stated interest, penalties, administrative costs and fines.”

However, only the stated principal must be reported as discharged on Form 1099-C, which poses compliance concerns for debt purchasers who may not have sufficient information to separate the stated principal from other amounts due. ACA International stressed in its comments to the IRS that because debt purchasers may not receive a breakdown of amounts owed by a consumer, such as principal, interest and fees, this segment of the industry would face difficulty determining how much must be properly reported to the IRS.

[SandyShores]

I am not that familiar with the California laws they follow the FDCPA to a point, but not completely, and the Calif website is down (budget cuts?) You should take a peek at your states laws and see what they say. The states AG's office has a section on CA's. I don't really see how a DV can do anything if your dealing with a the OC. I mean you get your statements from them and that is the same a DV.

What is is your trying to accomplish here? To just get the phone calls to stop?

You got it. I have mixed feelings about talking with original creditors but so far have not dodged anyone. So far I have heard from 5 creditors, 3 of whom didn't try and manipulate me and listened to my sob story and that was that. But two, Citi and Macys, were manipulative and deceitful from the start which irritated me to no end and of course I gave them attitude about what they were doing. Just like to shut them up without forcing their hand.

SandyShores

[SandyShores]

Thanks BB your advice is always welcome.

So far I have been able to tolerate the calls but wanted to know how to stop them when and if they get annoying or start calling neighbors, have no real relatives to worry about. I don't want to file until Dec or Jan so I figure by day 100 they will not be so nice-the ones that are and wanted a way to shut them down without getting sued first. As for getting sued, I am fairly certain that I am judgment proof but don't want the aggravation. Stressful enough just realizing that I have to go bankrupt.

I am taking all calls so far and not dodging anyone. I figure that way I won't incur their wrath but you never know.

SandyShores

[jacko]

Just send them a C&D. That should keep the phone quiet.

Don't sweat it. It just debt that will eventually go away via BK or ride the SOL out.

[catleg]

That is an excellent point BB and points out the hypocrisy of the three ring circus which lending has become in this country. Nobody really knows or cares what you really owe, it's all about squeezing one payment at a time out of you, since the plan is for you to become a perpetual debt slave.

[SandyShores]

Just send them a C&D. That should keep the phone quiet.

Don't sweat it. It just debt that will eventually go away via BK or ride the SOL out.

You're right. Will do! I really don't mind talking to them that much as I've stumbled on a tactic that seems to be working-give them a 10 minute econ lecture that I outlined in a previous post. It tends to overwhelm them and they just want to get me off the phone. Much better than telling them to stop hounding me which tends to make them cranky.

Thanks all.

SandyShores