Dealing with very nasty Attorney

[AngelinaCatHub]

I have a judgement against me for 16k . I was served with papers, went to get free legal aid, was told by them " Let them get the wages to garnish "

In this case, with a Judgment, they had to have gotten a Court Order to invade you bank account. This is legal, and you have no recourse, I'm afraid.

Keep all your accounts low or either go cash only (money orders are cheap).

If you were filed bk, then they could not have done this. 'Hub

[AngelinaCatHub]

Discover 16k Student Loan
US Bank 3k US Bank CC Student Loan
Captial One 3k Various living expences


A judgement was set against me. When I was served with papers I sought free legal aid from a free legaa aid service.

The lady I spoke with told me I was judgement proof at the time and to not bother going to the hearing. She told me what would most likely happen is my wages would be garnished once I started making so much money.

Instead what happened was I had my checking account garnished for about 75% aka 600.00

600$ is what I make for 2 weeks worth of pay. Only Discover served papers against me for the money. US bank and captial one both are willing to work with me.

With intrest piling up I am leaning towards claiming bankruptcy but still not sure.

Yes, what I just said. 'Hub

[treehugger1]

It sounds as if you did the correct thing speaking to legal aid. I don;t think they steered you wrong. It's funny they did not mention to you about your exemptions and how to protect them under a judgment.

They do not need a court order to invade your bank account if they have a judgment here. It appears any officer of the court or attorney registered with the OR BAR can sign off on a writ to garnish a bank account. Anyway, this is a moot point. Check online for prepaid debit cards such as accountnow, etc. They allow direct deposit, etc. The fees can be high, but they are not associated with any banks here.

The best thing is to go paper check from employer, but this is sometimes impossible with many employers, and you might have a hard time getting a paper check cashed at a bank you do not belong to.

I would be leary about giving any new bank account number to any other creditor you might want to work with. As a society, we (all of us) have been much to relaxed when giving out our personal banking information; we do it online to pay utilities, creditors, etc.

It sounds as if the Citi Paycard might be an option. I would guess they also have bill-pay, etc. Although as pointed out, money orders are cheap at Wallmart and other places. You should look into it soon. Read up on all the fees, etc.

It sounds as if you definitely qualify for a chapter 7 bankruptcy in Oregon. If it appears your new job looks sound, then this might be the right path for you. It also sounds as if you paid off your student loans. If this is correct, then you could be in very good shape under a BK 7 bankruptcy. You might inquire on the Chapter 7 threads in this forum.

"We are the ones are parents warned us about." I can't remember where this quote comes from. I think I saw it in a book by Abbie Hoffman. Boy, is it true! LOL

[themiker]

It sounds as if you did the correct thing speaking to legal aid. I don;t think they steered you wrong. It's funny they did not mention to you about your exemptions and how to protect them under a judgment.

They do not need a court order to invade your bank account if they have a judgment here. It appears any officer of the court or attorney registered with the OR BAR can sign off on a writ to garnish a bank account. Anyway, this is a moot point. Check online for prepaid debit cards such as accountnow, etc. They allow direct deposit, etc. The fees can be high, but they are not associated with any banks here.

The best thing is to go paper check from employer, but this is sometimes impossible with many employers, and you might have a hard time getting a paper check cashed at a bank you do not belong to.

I would be leary about giving any new bank account number to any other creditor you might want to work with. As a society, we (all of us) have been much to relaxed when giving out our personal banking information; we do it online to pay utilities, creditors, etc.

It sounds as if the Citi Paycard might be an option. I would guess they also have bill-pay, etc. Although as pointed out, money orders are cheap at Wallmart and other places. You should look into it soon. Read up on all the fees, etc.

It sounds as if you definitely qualify for a chapter 7 bankruptcy in Oregon. If it appears your new job looks sound, then this might be the right path for you. It also sounds as if you paid off your student loans. If this is correct, then you could be in very good shape under a BK 7 bankruptcy. You might inquire on the Chapter 7 threads in this forum.

"We are the ones are parents warned us about." I can't remember where this quote comes from. I think I saw it in a book by Abbie Hoffman. Boy, is it true! LOL

Thanks, this is sound advice. I am going to go paper check, keep my checking acct low low money and just use the same bank to cash my checks.. ( can the bank teller I cash my pay check with take a garnish out of it ? )

My student loans were paid off by Discover card, I assume I can still file for Bankruptcy and it still go thru?

[eddiep]

As treehugger pointed out, you should close the account if they have the account number. You will be hit with INF fees if they garnish and there is not enough money to cover it.

[BigJohn]

Sounds like the lawyer has a real heart. If your credit is trashed, you might want to file bankruptcy and join the club.

[catleg]

Let's hope that the loan was paid off by depositing a cash advance check in the bank and from there a check to pay the loan, and not a cash advance check directly to the student loan processor. Or worse yet an online credit card payment to earn "rebate points".

Wink, wink to any of you out there considering doing this.

[albacore44]

Exactly, I didn't know better and wrote a cash advance check from my CC to the IRS. I figured gee, I can pay the IRS get that out of the way and then just discharge the amount....sweeeetttttt, no need to worry about the IRS fees, penalties etc.

I almost (OK I did) freak out when I found out the CC could object to the discharge in BK of that amount on my CC since paying of taxes is not dischargeable. I had no idea at that time. So this is another reason why I am not running out to file BK, need to put some distance between me and this foo-foo. If they sell the debt to a JDB then it all disappears.

I believe your right, it would be up to the original creditor to raise objection. and based on responses here on the forum, the chances are very low that it would happen, particularly if payments were made on the card after the transaction, since this shows a good faith effort to repay the debt and not a pre-planned effort to defraud the creditor.

[themiker]

Where can I get a good referral to a Ch. 7 bankruptcy lawyer? Would the OSB Lawyer Referral Service be a good place to start? (I have their phone number) I need someone who's very knowledgable about bankruptcy law in OR and won't charge me unreasonable fees. I already tried clicking on "Find a BK lawyer" and they gave a law firm, but no phone number/email to contact them.

[themiker]

Hold on I want to clear something up... So you did have a student loan correct? Then you paid off your student loan with your Discover card? Is this still correct?

OK, maybe I didn't make myself clear. I used the card straight up to pay for school. I didn't take out a loan and then use Discover to pay off the loan.

I want to make sure you didn't just pay for your school but actually used a cash advance check or some other means to pay off a "genuine" student loan?

I didn't use cash advance checks because of the high interest rates.

Not sure I want to ask why since it is a mute point, but why would take what was a long term low interest loan and move it over to Discover (if this is what happened)?

Again, I used the card straight up to pay for school, instead of taking out school loans. It was a big mistake, and something I'll never do again.

[catleg]

OK, maybe I didn't make myself clear. I used the card straight up to pay for school. I didn't take out a loan and then use Discover to pay off the loan.

Again, I used the card straight up to pay for school, instead of taking out school loans. It was a big mistake, and something I'll never do again.

Don't worry, sometimes we over-think things here on this board.

Sounds like you're in a perfect position to file a chapter 7. Well, would be better if they hadn't gotten the $600.

[treehugger1]

Backing up one post to BB's. Therein lies the rub. A trustee can dig quite deep, while a debtor exam may only show that you made huge mistakes, have no assets, and are "clueless," when it comes to personal finances, none of which is a criminal offense.

If one thinks about how much the Western States depend upon legalized gambling (Lotto, scratchoffs, etc) for generating state revenue, in addition to Calif., OR, WA, etc that acknowledge Native American "gaming" casinos, it would have to be hard for any circuit court judge during a debtor exam to respond to a debtor's response, "You honor, I have gambled all my money away. I didn't mean to, but even the State of #### encourages it with their television commercials."

While BB cautions against what can happen if you spend down assets after legal action has been taken against you, even then anyone attempting to show fraudulent actions against a debtor who claims to gamble every dollar away in states that encourage such behavior, does not bode well for creditor or CA/JDB.

Until you file for BK and put your financial situation in the hands of a trustee, or are sued and have to potentially answer to a debtor exam, your financial business is exactly that, your financial business. Learn to keep it that way.

Protect yourself and free yourself of depending upon banks, ACH payments, etc.

For the original poster: Just because you only keep a few dollars in a checking account does not protect you from the bank charging you a search fee for a wage garnishment they receive. Even though the attorney may no tget anything, you will most likely be charged some huge fee due to the garnishment attempt by the attorney. CLOSE THE FREAKIN ACCOUNT! Otherwise your next collection/lawsuit issue may be coming from your own bank.

I've mentioned this issue before. Why do you think pre-paid debit cards is such a fast growing business?

[catleg]

Another option is bank out of state. Most likely the only reason the creditor was able to seize that money was because it was in a local bank, in other words, obvious place to look. There are plenty of places online which are remote from your location, have checking, or debit/ATM card with no fees etc.

[treehugger1]

Well, in Oregon, they do not need an account number for the judge/clerk to sign off. Once you had the judgment against you, it either attached to all real property or non-exempt property, or both. The judgment allows the attorney to be the 'administrator' who can sign for the bank garnishment. The courts are DONE. I think I posted the Oregon revised Statutes as to how this works.

Since it only costs the atormey $10 to order the bank to do an account search, they can "potentially" ask for a search at every local bank here. How likely is this? Not likely, in my opinion. They garnish KNOWN accounts. BB is probably correct in that it is not easy to find your bank account info. THere is no secret system out there that ties your SSN to every possible bank account number that I am aware of. If there were, then banks would be coughing up 100's of thousands of dollars in money related lawsuits against them.

Again, the worst thing you can do is keep your current bank account. CLOSE IT!!!! Open a new one. If you don't the bank has the right here to charge you additional fees for addressing the bank garnishment, then you are wrong. With the rule in Oregon related to the seizure limited to the funds in your account on the day the bank receives the garnishment, most attorney's are going to work that horse only once. They may try a second time, but if the account has been closed, they will receive word of this from your former bank.

Still, as BB pointed out, the only way someone is going to find a new account at a new bank is if you give them this info or you have to offer it up during a debtor's exam. Even then, before the attorney forces you into a courtroom here, they will send you "written interrogatories" questioning your financial state. They can ask for all sorts of stuff, but in my opinion, I would only send them info related since the time the suit was initiated. That starts the non-transfer or use of non-exempt funds rule in the state. If you fail to answer the written interogatory, then the plaintiff's attorney can ask the court to summons you. Big deal, if you are asset proof (other than wages.) But, what the heck, if you have no assets, and whatever you have in a bank account is exempt under Oregon law, then why would you need to furnish bank account info for accounts holding non-exempt funds.

I have a complete spreadsheet ready to go that shows my total liabilities versus my non-exempt assets. Including student loans, I am about -$130K worth of personal value. This does not include my pensions and/or exempt tax-deferred optional retirement savings and 403(b) accounts. I don't think it is necessary to list these as they are EXEMPT! All I have is a notice of wages to be paid in the future. I would also send this info if I ever received a written interrogatory. They can ask for all kinds of sh*t, including several years of tax statements, but the truth is that these statements probably have no bearing on your non-exempt assets. For me, I can now include a few $K of taxes-owing the IRS in my liability column. LOL That should get their attention.

It makes no difference. If you are sent a written interrogatory from an attorney, then send them info only related to non-exempt assets and money on deposit. In particualr, send them two columns showing your "assets" and a column showing your exemptions against said assets.

In the meantime, CLOSE YOUR BANk ACCOUNT and open a new one. If you get a new written examination form from the attorney, you will have plenty of time to close that account also. There is nothing fraudulent about this. While you might have to "explain" where the money in the account went to, this is pretty easy when you live in a state that promotes gambling and/or Native American Casino Gambling. I keep coming back to this, but unless you have a bank record/ledger, how the hell can anyone tell what you did with your money?! Even if you have your check direct-deposited and withdraw all the money from the account via ATM withdrawals over a couple of days, there is no way to tell what the money was spent on.

For all I know you could simply state, "I don't know what I did with the money?" You are not declaring bankruptcy, so you don't need an accounting of what you do with your exempt funds. The worst that might happen is that you have to divulge your new employer and noe the attorney can garnish your wages.

This is all my opinion. Sorry for the rant.

[jacko]

I closed my Wells Fargo Checking because my creditors were linked. I opened a Schwab One account which is personal checking and brokerage. I have both accounts linked which I can transfer funds between the two. I try to keep my balances low. Have the checking account linked to Paypal to transfer funds which I have a MC debit with to spread out. I don't want a high balance to be a sitting target. I will not deposit checks until I deplete the checking balance.

Schwab has no monthly fees and will reimburse for ATM fees.

Another option is bank out of state. Most likely the only reason the creditor was able to seize that money was because it was in a local bank, in other words, obvious place to look. There are plenty of places online which are remote from your location, have checking, or debit/ATM card with no fees etc.