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Out of work/waiting to file/how to avoid liens against checking account?

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    Out of work/waiting to file/how to avoid liens against checking account?

    Hi,

    I have been out of work for nearly 2 years, and have not had full-time work since 2006. The last job I held in my previous profession was a short contract in the Fall of 2007. Since then, I have done little odd jobs that paid me barely enough to cover rent.

    But I have had no work at all since 2008. After searching and searching for employment, I went back to grad-school part-time in the Fall of 2006. I only went part-time, so I could use the extra financial aid to live on while I looked for work. But the job landscape of my old profession had changed, and I was never able to secure a full-time job. Now I'm close to graduation. I will graduate next Spring '10.

    Last year, I received a judgment against me for 7,000. I wanted to file Ch7 or chapter 13 and visited a bankruptcy atty in the Fall. Unfortunately, he tells me I will need to wait until 2010 or even 2011. I have no assets, except a car that still has several thousand dollars owed on it.

    I was not eligible for aid this semester. So my parents are helping me, out of the kindness of their heart. They have helped pay the car loan, and give me a bit of money for rent/utilities/food.

    Recently, the attorney for the creditor sent me a notice of entry of default/clerk's judgement on this. Since I don't make any money of my own, I can't pay this.

    The lawyer I saw advised me to just take judgments on the chin. He said I was pretty "judgement proof". I have no assets.

    However, my parents do send me money from time to time in a wire transfer into a checking account. I have changed banks, but I am wondering if I should ask them to send it via a money wire service instead of into a bank account. My bank rarely has any money in it. I remove all of it on the same day it is wired, minus the money that goes toward my car payment. My parents don't have the money to help me with the judgment. So the question of whether I could borrow the money to pay off the judgment is moot. I'm sure my credit has been ruined. There were other creditors, but I have only been sued by one so far.

    In August, my guess is I will be eligible for welfare. A couple of classes I need to graduate will not be offered until next year, so I won't be in school, and won't have work unless something comes along before then.

    I wish there was a way to file now, but the lawyer said I would probably have the bankruptcy contested. I was hoping to find a job and be able to file chapter 13, but many interviews later, I still don't have one. He thinks if I get a job, I could file chapter 13 immediately. Otherwise, I'll have to wait until the tax returns are from a later period. Back in 2005, I sold a house. I had less than a capital gain. But I had some income. So I thought it was fine for me to take a cash advance/balance transfer-- because I had the money to pay on the debt. But I did not have full-time work. I was self-employed as a technical contractor, and my business basically dried up. I did not get any income on my 2005 or 2006 tax return. So this lawyer said to wait until 2010 or even 2011 to file a chapter 7. He said by that point a bankruptcy would probably not be contested, and hopefully I will find a job before that. If I found a really good job, I'd just make out a payment plan with my creditors. But that seems unlikely at this point. I'll probably be getting a new job in the new profession, and it will be lower-pay entry level than what I used to make.

    Any advice about the bank account? They would not have this account #. It's a pretty new account. I suppose I could open one in a different state. Not sure if that would help.

    Also, I still owe about 7,000 on the car. And it is not in great shape-- it would not fetch a lot. I might get 3,000 if I sold it. But I use it for a grad school internship. And I hate to sell it since I may need it for work. Is there a chance they would try to seize a car before it is paid off?

    Thanks so much for the info!

    #2
    What is he afraid would be contested that he's having you wait several years to file?

    Creditor objections or the US Trustee?

    Comment


      #3
      Creditor objections. Even though I made money on the sale of my house, it was excluded from my income taxes because it was less than 250K. So it looks like I made no money that year. But I took out some balance transfers. My business dried up, and I didn't know that I wouldn't be able to get more clients, so I spent down my savings waiting for more work.

      Comment


        #4
        He said I might be able to win the objections, but it would be expensive to fight them, and I don't have any money to do so.

        Comment


          #5
          All I can recommend is opening a new bank account (so none of your creditors have ever received a payment with that account information on it) at a less popular bank.

          If you have an old account at a less popular bank that you could switch to, that could be better -- avoid the inquiry on your credit reports for the new account.

          Perhaps one of the decent online checking offers that has no physical presence in your area (i.e. E*Trade, Fidelity Cash First Checking, ing Electric Orange, a small credit union and then use a "Shared Branching" location near you for the deposits, etc.)

          The idea being a creditor with a judgement looking to levy an account is usually going to take the quick and dirty approach, if they don't already have information in their files about where you bank. They will serve the most popular banks in your area -- more often than not they would get a hit and find your account.

          From what I understand in some states this is not possible (different procedures about enforcing a levy may make blanket approaches impossible), and creditors do have other ways of finding your account (inquires on your credit report from when you opened the account, etc.). But it would help.

          More often than not a creditor lawsuit is not some real intent person searching for every possible penny. It's a large mill law firm / collection agency with a huge portfolio racking up paper to throw around town and see what sticks. They don't usually have the time to go digging for your account, so if you don't make it easy they might not find it.

          Best of luck keeping things together until you and your lawyer can figure this out.

          Edit to add: Just for reference I saw a news article about one of the law firms / collection agencies that sued me for Capital One. In the past 3 months in RI alone they filed almost 4,000 cases. The quote from the firm in the article says a single attorney is handling these particular cases for the large firm.

          They're hoping for quick dump and run default judgments and scared people paying or easy assets to attach. With a caseload like that, they just can't do too much too quickly.

          Comment


            #6
            Thanks! That's really helpful. I used to have a bank account at a popular bank, but I closed it. Now I'm at a very small one-- and they did not do a credit inquiry on me. I love the bank, so I'd hate to close the account. If your bank does not allow overdrafts, can they only garnish it for what is in it? Right now it's got about 25-50 bucks in it tops. I just hope I can get a job soon and put this behind me. Otherwise, its going to be a long year..

            Yeah, I figured they might be taking a scattergun approach to judgments-- to see what sticks. If I had the money, they'd get their money-- I would have paid them when I got the summons.

            it would be helpful to know which states allow the blanket approach, as you call it. I wonder where I could find that out?

            Comment


              #7
              p.s. how did things go with capital one? I hate them. I interviewed with them many years ago, and they told me in depth about all the terrible schemes they have to make money on their credit cards.. I thought I was interviewing for the home equity division, which would have been okay because most times you at least get a house out of that. They gave me math problems that calculated interest based on late fees and overage fees, etc.. It made me sick. I'm so glad I didn't take it. At least now Congress has started looking into all those fees. Thank goodness for that.

              Comment


                #8
                I agree with the "lesser known bank" theory.
                Not wanting to give creditors too much info, I'd suggest there are a ton of banks associated with insurance companies who hopefully aren't your creditors that are off the beaten track.
                Allstate bank, Metlife bank, etc. Probably the further out of state the better!
                filed chapter 13..confirmed...converted to chapter 7...DISCHARGED!

                Comment


                  #9
                  You should really consult with more thank one bankruptcy attorney. Try 2 or 3 more. Than make a decision.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Catleg, do all the insurance companies have banks attached? And do they all require a credit inquiry?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Thanks. I did ask a couple of lawyers. The bankruptcy attorney i consulted with that I mentioned was recommended by my old property attorney. He's pretty well-regarded in this town. He said I could file right now, but I would probably have at least one objection, maybe more. Unfortunately, now we are six months later and I don't even have the filing fees. So I'll have to wait for 2010, or hope to find a job this Fall. It's basically six more months. So maybe there's a way to just hold off that judgment from being collected in that time. They just filed for an entry of default. So they are not moving that quickly. The original judgment was at the end of last year. Before I file the papers, I want to do one more consult just to make sure it's okay to file.
                      Last edited by rae; 06-14-2009, 07:05 AM.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by rae View Post
                        p.s. how did things go with capital one? I hate them.
                        I filed a response, requested some documents, and showed up at the first conference date. The lawyer they sent was actually quite nice, in my opinion she had sufficient documents (every single statement and letter ever sent, a "transcript" of the online account application, and a statement that they were representing the original creditor not a JDB), so I just signed a consent judgment so I didn't have to keep going back.

                        Perhaps I could have kept fighting, but I thought they were being fair so I didn't want to keep arguing it. I suspected I would be filing in the near future anyways. I thought they wouldn't have much problem with a summary judgement if I kept arguing.

                        Amex, on the other hand, served me in September 08. My next conference date was scheduled for 6/26/09 (if I hadn't filed). In all this time, multiple conferences, multiple continuances, the opposing counsel can't be bothered to provide a single thing as proof of the debt. I'm not saying what he's producing isn't satisfactory, he hasn't produced a thing. Yet he claims he is representing the original creditor -- odd that Amex can't even produce a final account statement or something for their own lawyer.

                        I keep filing the responses and showing up at the conferences because the lawyer has attitude, treats me like I'm scum, and I can see he *hates* that he has to keep going to court (I'm sure he was expecting a default judgement).

                        Until you've seen it for yourself, it's hard to imagine what these law firms do.

                        I was over Small Claims and into regular civil amounts, and the lawyer for Cap1 had roughly 25 cases for conferences on the day I went before I stopped counting. Most people didn't show and a default was entered. A friend went for a small claims case from the same firm and he said they just had people lined up like cattle out the door and down the hall and out the front steps and just walked them through -- a few questions later a judgment was entered. Again, most of the people didn't even show.


                        Good luck with your case. I signed the consent judgment with Capital One in March and other than one call a month or so, haven't heard a peep. No attempt to levy my account. The lawyer actually said they don't really care, this way they have statutory 12% interest for at least 10 years and then renewable -- they'll wait until they have a better chance of getting something.

                        She said I will receive paperwork from the law firm about once a year with a financial statement. They can accept my responses, or they can request a court hearing where I provide the same information under oath. If my finances hadn't changed much, they would just wait.

                        The attitude goes a long way. If the Amex lawyer acted like the Capital One lawyer he probably would have got me to sign something too.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Thanks J, the information about the Wallmart card is very helpful. I'll definitely look into that and into banking a little further afield from where I live now.

                          So do people tend to levy accounts, even when there is nothing in them? I'm just wondering if you can have a standing levy on an account, or if they have to go back through the process each time they try to get money out of an account. I think someone mentioned this back earlier. But what are the rules in the state of CA on this? Does anyone know?

                          I'm tempted to leave my small bank account with 20 bucks in it, and bank elsewhere. At some point, I'd love to bank at the small bank, but I don't want to get levied there. They are one of the best banks I've ever dealt with. So I hope to stay there.

                          Well, it's good to hear that Cap 1 dealt with you fairly. They were nice people, I just don't like the schemes of late fees, which cause overage fees, which cause interest rate hikes. It was a real education.

                          Most of my debts fall under the Small Claims court. There is one that is not, but they said they were planning on sending me a 1099.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Hi Gardendelite, sorry my post got posted out of order. Hope J or Big boy can help here. Good luck with your filing!

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I am certainly no expert, but my atty told me if I did get a job and was able to file Chapter 13, that if my income increased, I would need to file a "Change in circumstances". If you are planning on filing before the increase, you may still need to alert the court if your income increases. But I don't know what the consequences of not doing it are. It probably depends on the state, too. Anyway, good luck.

                              Again, does anyone know if CA is one of those states where creditors can send a blanket service to a bunch of banks, or if they have to pinpoint the precise bank to levy an account?

                              Comment

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