So are Pre-paid Visas not considered bank accounts?

[optimistic1]

Do you honestly think the trustee is going to waste his or her time trying to track down a pre-paid VISA card? I am confident they would NEVER find out unless you tell them. So, you are not going to get in trouble for this kind of "white" fraud (like white lies).

No, but you are held under oath, so "IF" they found out, get your prison blues on. There are several hundred thousand of people that are incarcerated for "white lies", of course ones one interpretation of a white lie will vary. It should be treated as cash on hand, so to go out and purposely defraud the bankruptcy system is a fallacy.

It is people that share your opinion that have brought the re-form to the bankruptcy laws that we now must all deal with, otherwise, someone meaningful in their indebtedness could have filed another Chapter 7, or could qualify regardless of their income, etc, etc.

While your at the idea of hiding hundreds even thousands of dollars on prepaid visas, why not hide everything else too, heck the trustee wont check. What a ludicrous motto and advice you have, I bet you steal cable too.

[treehugger1]

Optimistic, I don't see where anyone is advocating fraud on this post. The laws are left open for interpretation. As I've said in other posts, if this were not the case, we would not need attorneys and judges. The pre-paid visa/MC accounts clearly state their rules related to whether or not they constitute a "checking, savings, or any other bank account." They clearly state to the consumer that they DO NOT.

I think the reason folks have come to such an intersection in financial decisions is due to the changes under the 2005 revised BK laws; not the other way around as you suggest. As people find themselves in deeper and deeper financial straights, you will see far more reliance on non-traditional methods of "cash-like" transactions. I think you will also find such companies who offer pre-paid debit/gift cards work harder to protect their customers' privacy and autonomy than do the main-stream banks. I am amazed at the number of cash transactions that I now see in my local grocery stores and other retail stores. Cash leaves little trail and pre-paid debit cards as as close to that as you can get.

The point being made on some of the posts here is not that anyone would intentionally hide assets, including cash. The point is that such assets are potentially hard to uncover and the companies offering such services work very hard to protect their customers' security and privacy. These companies probably know exactly who their customers are: BK, chex-systems, etc.

I'll gladly pay $5 - $10 per month to protect my privacy and "keep" my financial situation to myself in the future. Would I lie under oath? Absolutely not. On the other hand, I need to know what the question is, and I need to be educated to know how to answer a question related to "bank accounts."

[optimistic1]

You know what BigBoy, I am not going to even respond to your insults. The moderators clearly told me not to, so I will place you on ignore once again. Keep in mind, I am not the only person that you appear to have a "problem with" on this forum. Its funny, because you are the only one who gets into these squabbles with members.

Each person is entitled to their own opinion, although some make so much more sense than others.

Have a nice life.

[optimistic1]

Optimistic, I don't see where anyone is advocating fraud on this post. The laws are left open for interpretation. As I've said in other posts, if this were not the case, we would not need attorneys and judges. The pre-paid visa/MC accounts clearly state their rules related to whether or not they constitute a "checking, savings, or any other bank account." They clearly state to the consumer that they DO NOT.
other retail stores. Cash leaves little trail and pre-paid debit cards as as close to that as you can get.

I am not gonna spell it out again, there are a number of posts in this thread where people have typed things like "the trustee would never know".

What part of that specific statement does not constitute fraud?

Now, to use the prepaid visas with the intent to insure privacy, or to not allow a slum creditor to garnish, I am totally for. But it is clear that others made posts on this thread with the intent to store cash on a prepaid visa, and imply that the trustee would never even know. I dont see how you are not seeing it the way I am. But oh well, im not gonna sit here and insult you and tell you how stupid you are and how you act like your so much better than everyone, and on and on and on.

[OhioFiler]

You know Optimistic1 I don't know what your problem is, but the fact you are the same boat as many of the rest of us and then go around pointing fingers as if your on some higher moral ground is really getting old, don't even try to paint yourself as being "better" your only making yourself look like a fool.

I don't give rats azz if someone else wants to lie to the trustee its NOT my problem. I will do what I want and I would suggest that if you plan to stay on this forum maybe you should go read the forum rules again.

But I am damn tired of our flat out rudeness to others on this forum. You have accused people of fraudulent behavior and now to tell someone else they are to blame for the BK reform that took place several years ago and then throw in they steal cable only means one thing; your projecting your own problems onto someone else.

So, simply grow up, act like an adult or go find another forum to whine on. Your constant child like behavior, name calling and unfounded accusations will not be tolerated.

I can tell you this right now, with your attitude and they way you have continued to behave, I wouldn't expect many people on here to give you anymore advice or even worse accurate advice.

Good luck, you seem to need it.

Well we each have the ability to control our posts and responsibilty for our own actions. I commend you for at least acknowledging you do this yourself. If you are tired of it by all means take whatever steps you believe will help you change your behavior.

[optimistic1]

I'm glad for you that the only entertainment you get out of life is in this forum. You are just the greatest person on the planet.

If the mods want to ban me for a TOS violation, then so be it. Like I cant just sign up again at my work computer.

I am sure that insulting other members in the forum and using profanity is also a TOS violation, but I wont waste any more time on this thread looking up Terms of Service rules like you.


Can someone please remind me how to ignore members posts? I did it before, and now I forgot.

[OhioFiler]

Control Panel

Setting and Options

Edit Ignore List

[treehugger1]

I keep going back to the original posts and replys related to whether or not pre-paid debit/gift cards are safe from the scrutiny of OC's/JDB's/Attorney's/trustees/etc. The answer is still "most likely, YES." Can such accounts be queried under examination.? The answer is YES. Is a debtor required to be "honest?" Ethically, the answer is YES. But, one would have to be kidding themself if they thought that most folks don't fudge on their BK papers. The entire point is to protect everything that you possibly can protect. In my OPINION, the only information anyone has about you is the information you are WILLING to divulge. I say start a new life. Protect everything you have from OC's/JDB's/attorney's/trustees/etc. Let your own morals be your guide; not the law, which is definitely open to interpretations.

I somtimes wonder about whether or not not someone might consider me to be a "deadbeat." Well, I have not made use of federal BK laws. I am willing to put myself before the courts of my state. I'm willing to let laws dictate my fate. I could quit my job and 6 months from now file a BK 7 and walk away free and clear of unsecured debt. Is this the ethical path? Folks do this all the time! The difference between deadbeat, "fraudulent debtor," and BK Filer is not very clear, in my opinion.

If you have assets, I still say you should protect them in whatever manner is available to you. I do not advocate fraud, but I do advocate protection of your assets if you are uncertain when/if you will file a BK. The laws afford debtors all sorts of protections. Why not use the laws? H*ll, I didn't write the laws, but I am free to make use of the laws of my state.

Here is an interesting exemption from Oregon. "Exempt funds on deposit to the amount of $7500.00 are protected from seizure." Since Oregon does not follow the federal exemptions for BK, you can bet your *ss, I would only divulge assets that are not exempt under a debtor exam, trustee query, etc. I would be more than willng to divulge any information related to non-exempt funds. The answer is easy; nothing, nada, zippo, etc. Is this fraudulent? I doubt it. State laws vary, so your mileage may be different.

And, I would always suggest that folks worried about debtor exams and/or trustee issues (341) should take the time to attend any such proceedings in their local/regional courts or regional BK proceedings. You might be surprised as to what is actually asked of a debtor.

[OhioFiler]

I keep going back to the original posts and replys related to whether or not pre-paid debit/gift cards are safe from the scrutiny of OC's/JDB's/Attorney's/trustees/etc. The answer is still "most likely, YES." Can such accounts be queried under examination.? The answer is YES. Is a debtor required to be "honest?" Ethically, the answer is YES. But, one would have to be kidding themself if they thought that most folks don't fudge on their BK papers. The entire point is to protect everything that you possibly can protect. In my OPINION, the only information anyone has about you is the information you are WILLING to divulge. I say start a new life. Protect everything you have from OC's/JDB's/attorney's/trustees/etc. Let your own morals be your guide; not the law, which is definitely open to interpretations.

I somtimes wonder about whether or not not someone might consider me to be a "deadbeat." Well, I have not made use of federal BK laws. I am willing to put myself before the courts of my state. I'm willing to let laws dictate my fate. I could quit my job and 6 months from now file a BK 7 and walk away free and clear of unsecured debt. Is this the ethical path? Folks do this all the time! The difference between deadbeat, "fraudulent debtor," and BK Filer is not very clear, in my opinion.

If you have assets, I still say you should protect them in whatever manner is available to you. I do not advocate fraud, but I do advocate protection of your assets if you are uncertain when/if you will file a BK. The laws afford debtors all sorts of protections. Why not use the laws? H*ll, I didn't write the laws, but I am free to make use of the laws of my state.

Here is an interesting exemption from Oregon. "Exempt funds on deposit to the amount of $7500.00 are protected from seizure." Since Oregon does not follow the federal exemptions for BK, you can bet your *ss, I would only divulge assets that are not exempt under a debtor exam, trustee query, etc. I would be more than willng to divulge any information related to non-exempt funds. The answer is easy; nothing, nada, zippo, etc. Is this fraudulent? I doubt it. State laws vary, so your mileage may be different.

And, I would always suggest that folks worried about debtor exams and/or trustee issues (341) should take the time to attend any such proceedings in their local/regional courts or regional BK proceedings. You might be surprised as to what is actually asked of a debtor.

I think this statement is incorrect and inappropriate. I think most people are very honest in their petitions. To suggest otherwise on this forum may give a new reader the wrong ideas.

[treehugger1]

You are correct, and I apologize. "fudging" was a terrible word to use. What I meant to say is that I believe some folks do preplan a BK. And, there is nothing wrong with that. Again, I don't think preplanning is fraudulent the way I am thinking about it. I guess what I am trying to say is that some folks get so strapped trying to pay their CC's and other unsecured debts that they probably have not have decent diets, healthcare, etc. Sometimes it can take six months to a year to build a solid financial trail that shows where you do spend your money. I guess what many people finally end up showing on their petitions is probably far more generous than what their basic necessities were at the time they first realized they were bankrupt. From what I can glean from the BK 13 threads, it is generally in your favor to have a good record of receipts.

This thread on prepaid debit cards seems to have gotten out of hand; myself included.

Thanks Ohio. I appreciate the reality check.

[HHM]

Ok, let's end this.