Have you been offered a BOA payment plan?

[pcn]

How much credit card debt do you have? If you would really have $2000 extra per month with no credit card debt, after paying all expenses, how do you not have enough to pay your credit cards?

If you had $80K in CC debt with an average interest rate of 15%, and paid $2000 per month, you pay off the CC's in 56 months.

Sorry, I was not thinking about the negative we are every month. I was including the 2nd as going away also. 90k cc at 2k monthly. 740 1st, 400 2nd. If cc was gone our monthly negative would go to more like $1200 disposable.

[pcn]

BigBoy2U,
The reason we got off on the wrong foot is my dislike for assumptions/accusations. If you really are here to help people, you might try using a nicer tone in your responses. No one wants to ridiculed, especially when it’s based on false assumptions.

You assumed that I gave them personal information. I didn’t (Now that you happy handed BOA all your financial, employment, mortgage/rental, asset info to "pass" their means test now what?).
You assumed they had raised my rates. They didn’t. (Did BoA not jack the interest rate up on your cards only to tell you that if you are on our "special plan" we will lower it?)
And you end with a final insulting assumption. (But it was really nice of you to hand over to BOA all your current financial info so they can tell you if you "qualify" or not)

I do understand that BOA is only interested in helping themselves. But I am not so proud that I can’t consider that there is the possibly of a mutual benefit somewhere down the line. My intent is not that my creditors get nothing; it is that my family and I get the best possible outcome.

I do hope that we can get past the rough start, so I apologize for any offense I have caused. I am not an expert. You may be an expert. From your ID I see that you have been here a while, have not filed, and still owe your creditors 50k. My goal is to correct our financial issues and get on with our lives as fast as possible, so we may have different goals. If you are working on a long term plan, maybe it is working. If so, I would like to hear from someone who is succeeding.

[HHM]

Sorry, I was not thinking about the negative we are every month. I was including the 2nd as going away also. 90k cc at 2k monthly. 740 1st, 400 2nd. If cc was gone our monthly negative would go to more like $1200 disposable.

What do you mean by, our monthly "negative" would go to more like $1,200 "disposable". Are you saying that if you had no credit card payments you would still be short each month by $1,200, or that you would now have $1,200 left over each month.

If you are still $1,200 negative each month if you had no credit cards, then you are bankruptcy, and don't pass go. You are wasting your time and money trying to do anything else.

[pcn]

Sorry, not clear again. I broke out the spreadsheet here at home and will use actual data.

We have 2000 monthly cc bills.
We are short every month around $1,200, so we've taken $1,200 from savings we meet our minimum monthly payments.
So if cc debits went away we would have a whopping $800 left every month.

Sorry for the confusion, I know it makes it hard to help. In my mind I had the 2000 cc debit going away as equating to actually keeping that 2000. Since we've been robbing savings so long I didnt consider that amount.

[HHM]

Ok, I see.

That probably puts you in the chapter 13 realm. You really need to ask your self how much you want to be in control of the situation. Do you want to leave your financial future in the hands of your creditors, hoping and praying they will help you, or do you want to take control of your financial circumstances, stop robbing peter to pay paul, and file a chapter 13 where you get to control what your creditors will be paid.

[pcn]

Yes, ch13 with a lien strip is what we are leaning toward. We pass the test for a 7 - that is appealing if we could somehow get rid of the 2nd mortgage as well. Estimated ch 13 payment is 200, 2nd is 400, so the 13 is "cheaper" for the 5 years of the plan, and gets rid of the interest only 2nd. A ch 7 that kills the 2nd would be the best of all worlds. I do prefer the quickness/cleanness of the 7 however the interest only 2nd comes along with it. The 2nd makes the ch7 more expensive in the long run. Does my thinking seem correct?

I am going to call back the first lawyer we spoke with this coming Monday to ask him "have you successfully removed the 2nd mortgage in a ch 7 as you suggested." If the answer is no it makes our decisions much easier.

[HHM]

There is no legal grounds to remove a 2nd mortgage in a chapter 7.

You cannot CRAM down real property in a 7 and you cannot lien strip voluntary liens in a 7. There is no legal mechanism for doing so.

I am not sure what real leverage this attorney would have to convince the 2nd to actually remove their lien. After all, even though they are not getting paid, it doesn't cost them anything to leave it there and wait. The only way to deal with a 2nd mortgage in a chapter 7 is to try and get better terms is to negotiate a reaffirmation agreement.

[fltoo]

There is an alternative, since you qualify for a chap 7.

I haven't really followed all the responses, so forgive me if you told us, but, how much is the junior lien and do you have any cash available?

How much can you save a month by not paying the cc bills?

[pcn]

1st is 89k, 2nd is 39k. home valued at 85. Eliminating cc debit frees up $800 monthly. (actual cc payments are $2k monthly, difference was made up from savings.) What's the alternative?

[SobStory]

Well, to get back to the original question: I did a payment arrangement w/ BOA. I completely made up the numbers I gave them to pass their "means" test. It's not a means test, just some form they fill out. It's not a court of law, just a questionaire before they will let you enter their "debt mgmt" with lowered interest rate.
I don't feel bad about making up the numbers - we are self employed and really don't know, just that our business is decimated.
Well, we can't keep up with even that payment. I figured it out after the first month and stopped paying. So after a few months of not paying, BOA called and offered to settle for 50 cents on the dollar. I said I will think about it. However, realistically, we will have to file. The moral of the story: I don't think it would be difficult to settle w/ BOA. We would do so but will not have the means to do so.

[cag]

[treehugger1]

Well, I hate to tell you this, but I have had 2-3 different arrangements with BOA relating to 5 year pay-off plans from 0% - 2% interest. I will say on their behalf, that they were real players when I reached the 180 day mark. Even after I faltered on an earlier plan, they still allowed for a "new" plan. They need cash; forget about the interest. I think they "get it" much better than other institutions do (Chase, Crap1, etc.) During the last conversation, I refused to give any updates of my personal financial situtation and they eventually agreed to a payment plan. I can go into any BOA branch and make my payment; no checking account, debit account, etc is required. I go in and make the payment in cash. In fact, my recent credit report suggests that there has been activity that improves my credit scores (LOL.) Not that I care, but they report "paying as agreed." This seems to bring my credit score over 500, whoopee!