Please list the month you stopped paying on your CC and the month of first judgment

[CompTweaker]

This is a very good question because does a sworn denial, if allowed, circumvent responding to numbered complaints and claims of the palintiff in an initial service?

Nope, you still have to answer with admit, deny, or lack sufficient knowledge.

I have found even more cases and sample defenses to add with your list of answers. I'm reading them and will post them when I figure out which ones will apply to my situation, when I start my thread for fighting the lawsuits.

I think all of us who go through a lawsuit should have one thread where we describe what happened and what the outcome was. It should be very helpful to those who come here looking for answers if they can read what we have been through, especially if they are about to go through the same process.

[GoingDown]

Yep, no matter what anyone says, if you want to fight against a lawsuit, you MUST file a written answer, or you will always lose.

I've heard of debtors calling the plaintiff's attorney and being advised that they didn't have to file an answer or appear in court, and that they would work out some kind of deal to avoid going to court, and then about a month later they find out that there is now a default judgment against them.

[debtmonster]

That is an awful way to live and to allow creditors to control your life like that for so many years. No wonder you are in the position you are in; it's expensive to move around like that so you are continually racking up debt at various places and then have to run. You knew it couldn't last forever - they eventually catch up with you.

I didn't do it by choice. I HATED moving! What choice do you have when you get laid off and can't find any work locally? Should have I just sat home and lived on $200/wk. unemployment when I was used to making a $60k income? I put my resume all over the place and the only fish that would bite were all far away. I had a niche programming talent that I gained over 10 years. Finding jobs locally when one job finished was usually next to impossible. It was only years later that I learned about how people like me make it so difficult for CA's. NOT MY PROBLEM.

[debtmonster]

First of all, just so everybody knows, I'm going through this right now. I plan on making a post detailing every single thing I am doing to fight these lawsuits.

:HIGH-FIVE: on that! POST DETAILS! We all wannna see!

[CompTweaker]

Bigboy, are you seriously going to try and lay a guilt trip on me? LOL, you're something else. Ya, I can tell you used to work in collections.

As far as my end plan, it was clearly stated. And yes, they will have to work at proving the debt is mine if they can and if they want to "waste" their time doing it. I dont mind one way or the other really. I would like to save filing BK for something more serious, at my age something medical could arise and right now, I dont have health insurance! If I (or anyone) has a chance to fight it in court and win, then I ask you....why not?

.....anyways, who are you to question why and when I want to file or fight a lawsuit? You're entitled to your opinion, but getting your blood pressure up over it is not my fault. And yea, I got myself into this by using the cards....I was never late on any payments for almost 13 years, and then the good ole NAFTA kicked in, good paying job after good paying job kept getting sent to china and mexico, the credit card collections dept. wouldnt work with me, instead they increased my interest rate to 28%, so yea, I stopped paying! Anything else you wanna judge me on?

[treehugger1]

You know I think we are all stating similar points from different perspectives.

If I am not going to declare a BK 13, then the only possible legal action I would guard against would be a suit in which the plaintiff claims thousands more than what is actually owed the creditor.

Currently, I have the potential for that to happen to me. An out-of-state bank sent a $7K CC debt to a CA not registered to collect or do business in my state (both illegal.) I asked the AG's office to send a cease and desist collection activities and operation of business practices. The AG sent a letter demanding such. A month later, the debt winds up with a local (my area) CA with an amount of $11K!!! Here is what I think happened. The out-of-state collection agency would have received 40 - 60% from the original bank for collecting on the debt. When the state required them to cease and desist business practices in my state, they pushed the collections over to my local CA. I don't think the local CA realizes that the amount owed the original creditor and the amount they are attempting to collect on is even close to the same number. I DV'd the local CA about a month ago, and they have not replied. By the way, my local CA knows the law and are very good about verifying debt. I think there is no way they are willing to attempt to collect on a debt that includes $4000 of collection costs from an out-of-state CA who is not registered or licensed to do business in my state. In fact, the first out-of-state CA sent me verification of the $7K. Can you imagine the local CA filing suit and me answering and eventually dragging into court the original debt validation of $7K? The original creditor (who still owns the debt) is going to show a charged-off verification of $7K plus some change in interest. Note that the debt verification must come from the original creditor if the debt is still "owned" by them. Someone dropped the ball on this situation and I am more than willing to lay down $200 to answer a summons if it comes to a debt showing $11K. I'm guessing that my local CA realizes there is aproblem with this and I suspect if they receive original creditor verification of $7K but attempt to continue to collect on the additional 4K, this is close to fraudulent. If they sue me for the original amount, I doubt I will respond and they can get in line for garnishment.

Most of us "know what we owe." I think it si a fallacy that most folks can legally walk away from debt that is valid.

In terms of responding to other national CC suits, I'm not so sure I would answer or reply unless the collection/attorney fees were extreme. I would think any extreme fees could come under challenge of state collection cost laws and thus a judgment could be appealed.

I think the smart and local collection attorneys realize this and will behave according to the law.

I hear a lot about "should I or should I not DV?" I think one should always DV a CA or even a creditor once the account is charged off. There is no obligation on the original creditor to verify the debt under the FDCPA, but any communication is probably taken seriously.

I look for some tough changes in collection laws during the next few years as Americans begin to struggle with not paying their bills, especially those that have no security behind them.

Just my thoughts and a bit of experience with a weird collection attempt.

[treehugger1]

I'm going to add to my last post. I think that the original creditor may have already paid the $4K in collection fees to the out-of-state collector. If such is the case, they probably screwed themselves out of $4K. I would love to know what is going on here, but will remain quiet until/if my local CA complies with the DV. As I said the local CA (whether I like it or not) runs a tight ship and abides by the FDCPA, requests for DV, and C&D requests. They are probbaly a good model for a small business collection company. They appear to know their business and I am thankful for that. I have sat across the table from them in small claims mediation, and they are not opposed to working out financial issues related to debt.

It is the "under-educated" large national CA's who can be somewhat clueless. They play by the numbers and hope to catch a few fish now and then.

[CompTweaker]

Are you sure it costs $200 to answer? I called my local circuit court today and she said it is free to answer a summons and complaint, and $25 to file motions. Maybe each state is different.

Good points though. One case I have has also tacked on huge fees from somewhere. The debt has almost tripled in the 28 months it went between JDB's and the one who has it now....oh well, works to my advantage

[treehugger1]

I am sure about the cost to file an answer in my state. You pay to play. Above all, one needs to ensure that the court, along with the plaintiff, gets your reply. The receipt from our county clerk clearly denotes this transaction.

Interestingly, in Oregon it costs $44.50 to file a denial in small claims. This can be quite cheap since small claims amounts go to $7500 (the state has a different idea of a "small" claim than I do, LOL.)

If I lived in a state such as you do that requires no cost to file an answer, I'd probably file an answer to everything, just on principle, especially if the debt has passed through several JDB's. Keep in mind they play th eniumbers, even if they sue. Consider the example where you are sued by a JDB in a remote county such as mine. In addition, my state courts consider reasonable collection fees. If you are suing for a $3K to $15K debt, but it will cost you several thousand more in attorney fees (collection costs) that may or may not be OK'd by the local judge, you run the risk of barely able to collect on your $.20 per dollar that you purchased the debt for. You are probably better off to sell the debt to the next JDB. If the defendant answers, you might just decide to not show up and say screw it! Suppose you do get a default judgment, which may not be that big of a deal as BB points out. Now what? You still need to collect on it. If your legal counsel is outside the state, you now have more costs related to the unknown potential for enforcing the judgment. Then again there is a numbers game working here. How many folks are finally frightened into paying a debt once they have a judgment against them (Oh me, Oh my?) The "nice" thing about a judgment is that the lawsuit threat for unpaid debt probably grinds to a halt. The judgment just sits there until some other JDB now buys the right to collect and has to figure out what to do. The CA business is a risky business when informed consumers are the defendants.

I think both you and BB are correct in how one chooses to respond or not respond to a summons. The better educated you are about your own situation, the more the choices will become apparent.

Cheers.

[amymelissa78]

I had a judgement about 8 years ago.

I had an ex-roomate who took me to court for $600. I was 21 and very irresponsible back then. First of all it went to court in the county I was residing in. I agreed to make these big payments that I couldn't make.

So, I didn't make them.

Next thing I new, She showed up at my work with some officials to serve me papers to go to tribal court(I worked at a Casino on an indian reservation, so to get your wages garnished, it has to go through tribal court first).

I didn't show up to the Tribal Court hearing, but they garnished my wages, $200 a week for 4 weeks.

I had a judgement on my credit report for 7 years. My credit was pretty shot back then anyways, because I wasn't making timely payments and I had collections already. I worked on repairing my credit on my own and in 3 or 4 years my credit score did start to improve significantly. My score was still fairly low, but I was also told that the judgment did have a huge impact on my score even when it was 3-4 years old. Once it got to be about 5 years old, my score started to improve quickly. It came off a year ago and my credit score was decent, too bad it couldn't stay that way with having to go through bk.

It took about 5 years of trying to repair my credit score to get it from a 475 to 660(which still isn't great, but it was definately better than where it started at).

[debtmonster]

I had a judgement about 8 years ago.

I had an ex-roomate who took me to court for $600. I was 21 and very irresponsible back then. First of all it went to court in the county I was residing in. I agreed to make these big payments that I couldn't make.

So, I didn't make them.

Next thing I new, She showed up at my work with some officials to serve me papers to go to tribal court(I worked at a Casino on an indian reservation, so to get your wages garnished, it has to go through tribal court first).

I didn't show up to the Tribal Court hearing, but they garnished my wages, $200 a week for 4 weeks.

I had a judgement on my credit report for 7 years. My credit was pretty shot back then anyways, because I wasn't making timely payments and I had collections already. I worked on repairing my credit on my own and in 3 or 4 years my credit score did start to improve significantly. My score was still fairly low, but I was also told that the judgment did have a huge impact on my score even when it was 3-4 years old. Once it got to be about 5 years old, my score started to improve quickly. It came off a year ago and my credit score was decent, too bad it couldn't stay that way with having to go through bk.

It took about 5 years of trying to repair my credit score to get it from a 475 to 660(which still isn't great, but it was definately better than where it started at).

My jaw was on the floor when I read this.

Wow! And even with repo's and charge-off's, I had a beacon of 685! That's how I was able to buy the BMW.

I remember when we tried to sue a guy for over $2,000. Every time the sheriff went over to serve him the papers, he was conveniently NOT THERE. We went back to the court and they said there's nothing we could do until he's served. Based on this experience, I would tell everyone to NEVER answer the door for a process server. If someone was to garnish my wages, I'd quit my job and move.

[debtmonster]

Well you do have three other options, you send it via the post office CMRRR, Fed EX or UPS signature required, have someone you know dress up like a delivery dude and serve them and finally service via publication.

But even if you do get him served, herein lies the problem, collection, sure you have a piece of paper you paid $xxx.xx to get a default judgment but with no real property to lien on, your SOL (and I don't mean statue of limitations) unless you can keep on trying to keep with bank accounts, find if they have a job, won the lotto and thats about it. So if your lucky about every three years you find someone to pull his credit and see what is new like employment, new credit, etc. and then you go looking for him again. I am just saying for the average Joe getting a judgment is terribly hard to enforce on someone who has no real property.

What about if the person was making money in Amway or Herbalife, but they are independent contactors doing an MLM? How do you garnish those sales? Sometimes the person may may $3,000 in a month and another time they could make $0 to $500. What do you do when going after one of those people? You know they are a distributor for the company, so how do you go after their commission checks?

[Confuzed]

I don't understand the concern about discovery. If you fight a lawsuit by answering the complaint, what do your assets have to do with anything? Does it matter if you show you have 50,000 dollars in the bank, 20 acres of land, 10 apartments, and 3 cars if you are sued for anything? That does not mean you legally owe the amount you are being sued for. The rule of law applies, doesn't it?

In other words, because you have money/assets means you are guilty? I thought they had to prove the debt, the original agreement, a live witness if you do a sworn denial. If they can't then how can they claim a judgment against you? Doesn't the JDB/plaintiff have the burden of proof regardless of what you have?

Can someone clear this up or am I missing something here about the worries regarding what your spending habits were and assets or money you may or may not have.

[debtmonster]

After seeing all of these problems, I no longer want to have any assets in my name ever again. How can I own property but have it in the name of a 3rd party that I control? Can I just get an S-Corp and have the cars, home and all of that under the company to protect them from liens?

[treehugger1]

You can make them "prove" the debt in court. But, you should do a risk assessment should you lose and the judge awards collection fees and plaintiff's attorney fees. A sworn denial? Well, I did some more research on this, at least locally, and it appears that the judges in my county and district have limited patience with folks who "know they owe," but want to suck up the time of the court. But if you can absolutely prove your rights have been violated, they will listen and they do give the CA's hell. However, your ducks had best be in a row. The law is based on statutes, and those statutes can be open to interpretation.

In terms of discovery, once you answer the summons, the plaintiff and you have the right to request specific information from one another. Unless you know how to deal with this from your side, and when the plaintiff's attorney begins to grill you about your financial affairs, you are in for a long and potentially difficult fight, along with running up the other side's attorney fees.

However, if let something go to a default judgment (can be vacated in BK) you might eventually be summoned to the court to undergo a debtor's exam, but this could take a while. And, I think as BB pointed out, for some it doesn't matter! If you have no assets and know you owe the debt ,reasonable with reasonable collection costs, then what do you hope to gain. Yes, you might get a dismisal with prejudice, and yes the plaintiff might back off, but you have no way of guaranteeing the results.

If youa re sued, your assets have little to do with anything initially, but if you get a default judgment, or lose while defending yourself, nonexempt assets are now open to execution of seizure by the plaintiff.