Boy the calls have started with a vengance

[Bandit]

Bandit, you know already that I adore you. So please don't be offended when I tell you that legally and technically, BigBoy is correct. If someone had a judgement that Chapter 7 did not discharge, it HAD to involve a specifically non-dischargeable judgement. If it did not, they were not telling you the truth.


As always, I wish you well!!! Take care, Bandit.

I have consistantly been in reference to THE END RESULT through every post I have made. Go back & you will see.

The terms do not amount to a hill of burnt beans when the end comes.

I am not offended.

While what you are saying is true, what I am saying is also true. If you want to tell people that BK removes all judgments you will one day find someone who did not have their judgment removed & was passed through with a summary or similiar. There are people who try to fight this stuff for years. No lawyer is going to tell you ALL judgments are removed in BK. The end result still gives the judge the final say so. If it did not, then there would be no reason to have a judge present for those situations.

All the judgment does is move to an objection (and it does happen).
For the life of me, I do not see how you cannot see that.

The court administrator shall discharge the judgment(s) after receipt of the application and attachments unless a creditor files an objection. If an objection is filed, the debtor or other interested party may file a motion before a judge for an order to have the judgment discharged.

The objection acts as the same exact thing as a judgment here when it comes to the final result. It is like having two queens in a check during chess and the king is still running.




Even if the judge removes the judgment (most judgments) so what? if the creditor objects to disharge & the judge decides you will pay, then you are right back at square one & you will pay. The end result does not change my friend.
iF the judge removes the judgment and also does not allow the objection against you then you dont pay. There is no law that says the judge does not decide the end result in this.

I am also telling you that cases have been reopened & you cannot stop them from doing it. Rare, but it happens & you know that.

There are a whole bunch of cases out there but I am not going to spend time trying to prove it. If a judge decides you owe the money in the end you WILL pay it back. You would need to take it up with the judge instead of me

Stay Sweet, FreshLikeADaisy

[Bandit]

Well it seems if you go into BK honestly and have nothing wrong with your case, which it seems we all are hoping that is what will happen, then lawsuits on unsecure debts have no choice but to stop lawsuits or collections. Otherwise what is the point in BK if creditors can still collect. Now I do realize if you file C13 you repay some or all of your debt. If you file C7 most debts, other then student loans, child support and other things are not dischargable.

I am not expert, but have spent an unbelievable amount of time on here reading and so far I have found that most debts in a successful C7 are discharged period. So I just think the lawsuit things maybe for dishonest filers which most people aren't.

I do not disagree with you at all.
What I think happens is people become wrapped up with terms not realizing
that the reality & totality of a judgment going to an objection is basicly the same exact problem & in the end it is possible for a debt not to be discharged & wages still garnished.
I have seen cases where people spend years trying to get a judgment off their record after BK & others who do in fact end up paying a creditor in full because they went through the judgment first & then the objection.

I know there is another side to all this that not very many people ever get, But I am like you, most people are successful.
I dont claim to be an expert either but I know better than to tell people that all judgments will be reomoved or that judges do not have the final say so -when both an objection after a judgment over the same debt occurs.

[Bandit]

LOL... no offense Bandit but I am starting to wonder if someone hacked your account...like some rouge collector trying to spread the word of the anti-BK....lol... just really didn't seem like you talking...<shrug>

Yes that is right. Send all your money to me & I will get you out of debt. Forget the BK & hire me to consolidate your debt








































NOT

[Bandit]

1. I have no idea what your trying to say in the first paragraph above, why would have to pay back a discharged debt?
2. I have no idea what your second paragraph "some cases are dismissed" refers too.
3. I have no idea what your third paragraph "There are summary judgments" refers to either. Do you know what a summary judgment is? Its not uncommon for the plaintiff in a debtor suit to request a motion for summary judgment with the summons and complaint. If you don't respond they make a motion for summary judgment and thats how they get a default judgment right away. So whats is your point? These are discharged all the time.
4. Can you explain this one better? I am not sure you understand what "dismissed with prejudice" means. Dismissed with Prejudice means the case cannot be brought back to the courts.

1. I never said what you are saying I said.
2. then go learn about cases being dismissed if you do not know what that means.

If you are going to quote me, then please get the quotes right & at least put them in quotes. It is very difficult to read the way you are doing the quotes because it makes it look like you are saying all the stuff I am saying & I am saying all the stuff you are saying & nothing makes any sense.

3)Go learn what Summary Judgments are- they really do exist. You have no say so in a summary judgment. You do not even get a full trial. What are you doing in the court room now? Telling the judge what to do? Are you telling the judge to discharge your summary judgment? Sure you are.
If your summary comes from the judge after both a judgment & objection for the same debt & the judge says PAY IT!!! you WILL pay it. Why do you not understand there is a judge involved in this & not just you?

"dismissed with prejudice" means. Dismissed with Prejudice means the case cannot be brought back to the courts.

Yes but What it also means in BK is, that debt will never NEVER be discharged even if you have to take it to your grave. it is not just about not going back to court.

AGAIN THE END RESULT IN ALL of this IS YOU PAY IT BACK! BECAUSE THE JUDGE SAYS SO!

[Bandit]

I am not sure but maybe people just cannot accept the fact that JUDGES do still make final decisions in all forms of law when they need to.

Here is one concerning a lien. An objection is not even necessary & the judgment remained. This is elementary.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/nyctap/search/display.html?terms=bankruptcy%20not&url=/nyctap/I91_0188.htm

[Bandit]

Okay, here it is:

Title 11, Section 523: Exceptions to Discharge

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode11//usc_sec_11_00000523----000-.html

LOL
Agreed & that is a very extensive list that you cannot just blow off.

But I am not just in reference to having a judgment removed I am also talking about an objection for the same debt in the same case using those 20 points that would move the judge toward not giving you a discharge. Just getting the judgment removed is not enough to gaurantee you wont have to pay some money back. You may also have to go thru the objection.
Removing a judgment does not remove an objection that follows the judgment on the same debt. Does it?

Do you follow at all what I am trying to say, FreshLikeADaisy ?

[Bandit]

No one here understands what I am saying so I am not going to post any more on it until someone can relate to what I am saying is true.

Not ignoring anyone here, respectfully, & it has been fun but not that much fun for me to keep repeating myself.
Maybe I will take a peek next week to see if anyone got it.
Later!

[Bandit]

I think I will throw in another wrench into the whole mess that some of you may not be aware of & for those of you who think BK is always cut & dry...

CAN THE DISCHARGE BE REVOKED?

yes it can!!!! they typically have up to a year to do it or in some cases up to the time of closing.
again it will be up to the court to determine if the allegation is true & there is no absolute law that says it cannot happen.

of course you guys are going to try & tell me I am wrong (& that is ok), but I am not.

[epiphany]

I think I will throw in another wrench into the whole mess that some of you may not be aware of & for those of you who think BK is always cut & dry...

CAN THE DISCHARGE BE REVOKED?

yes it can!!!! they typically have up to a year to do it or in some cases up to the time of closing.
again it will be up to the court to determine if the allegation is true & there is no absolute law that says it cannot happen.

of course you guys are going to try & tell me I am wrong (& that is ok), but I am not.

No, you are right but it is highly unlikely if one plays a clean, honest, hand.

The court may revoke a discharge under certain circumstances. For example, a trustee, creditor, or the U.S. trustee may request that the court revoke the debtor's discharge in a chapter 7 case based on allegations that the debtor: obtained the discharge fraudulently; failed to disclose the fact that he or she acquired or became entitled to acquire property that would constitute property of the bankruptcy estate; committed one of several acts of impropriety described in section 727(a)(6) of the Bankruptcy Code; or failed to explain any misstatements discovered in an audit of the case or fails to provide documents or information requested in an audit of the case. Typically, a request to revoke the debtor's discharge must be filed within one year of the discharge or, in some cases, before the date that the case is closed. The court will decide whether such allegations are true and, if so, whether to revoke the discharge.

In a chapter 11, 12 and 13 cases, if confirmation of a plan or the discharge is obtained through fraud, the court can revoke the order of confirmation or discharge.

ep

[Bandit]

If you are somehow meaning an objection to a judgment listed in a BK proceeding, then the BK judge would hear the objection and argument and render a decision and it would be ruled that the debt was or was not dischargeable prior to the rest of BK being discharged.

That is what I have been saying all along. Finally we connected

And yes a summary judgment can easily be discharged in BK.

I understand from the debtors POV that is what you hope, but there is a whole other side to this that you should in the very least acknowledge.


I am not going to touch your summary judgment post except for definition of discharge & easy . You can appeal, get them reversed or whatever term you would like to use but they dont get discharged like debt does- that is completely different terms and I am sure you know that. You probably mean dismissed & not dishcarged.(?)

However, getting a summary against you is a dangerous position to be in & you are back to maybe & maybe not. It is not not as easy or cut & dry as you make it out to be. Neither is it affordable for most people who need a simple CH7.

This is a fun case to follow on summary judgment where it was reversed and goes back to trial & the debtor wins but it was not easy by any means:

http://courts.state.ar.us/opinions/2006a/20060216/05-660.htm

In conclusion, we hold that Mr. Lewis's testimony raises a genuine issue of materialfact regarding whether he intended to manipulate the judicial process to gain an unfair advantage. The circuit court erred in finding that summary judgment was appropriate, and we reverse and remand for trial.

Reversed and remanded.

Here is a case where summary was reveresed:

http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F2/956/956.F2d.272.91-1598.html

& here the debtor loses in foreclosure:

http://www.court.state.nd.us/court/opinions/20030106.htm

here is one where appeal to summary is denied & the debtor loses:

http://ca10.washburnlaw.edu/cases/2007/04/06-6158.htm

Lets start first with our lesson of the day

The first lesson of the day is, if the judge orders to pay it back you will pay it back

I suppose if you have enough money you can stay in court for the rest of your life arguing blue in the face & make the court & lawyers rich/er, but there comes a time when it is not worth it & would have been much easier to settle out of court if possible and cheaper to pay it back.
So, where is all that money coming from to litigate & fight when they are supposed to be bankrupt with no assets? Retirement? Gifts from grandma? lol

[Bandit]

No, you are right but it is highly unlikely if one plays a clean, honest, hand.


ep

Thank You, epiphany.

[Bandit]

?

Well, maybe if you would stop looking for disagreements in everything I say? Are you always this quarrelsome about everything? You have not looked for one single thing to agree on as you only look for things to disagree about.
I do not have time for that type of dialogue.

If you actually read the valid cases (& replied to them) instead of calling them random cases as pointless- & keep reading more cases & what happens you will see how very lacking you are with your cut & dry. Since you are also not aware, There are many areas where the state serves as the final authority & you wont be going any higher.

I am going to stick with what judges rule on, in valid real cases instead of what you say.

I am glad you have it all figured out though.

[Bandit]

OK someone help me out here...am I lost and confused and have no idea what I am talking about? If so let me know... I don't want to be posting inaccurate information....mods or someone familiar with this please let me know if this is incorrect. And you can post it here...if I am wrong I can take it...LOL

No one is saying you are wrong but you are wearing sideblinders LOL!!. You think all law is a perfect cookie cutter about everything and it ISN'T.

[WhatMoney]

BigBoy2U,

Well said. You summed it up in a reasonable manner. I hope this pissing contest is now over.

[Bandit]

It also doesn't mean is fair or realistic for anyone who comes on this board to read about BK to get a dose of...well maybe no matter what you don't get a discharge because I feel that way and I read a case of someone who didn't. Thats not an accurate and fair statement.

Not everyone is going to get a discharge & I am not going to sit here & pretend just to satisfy you.
There are people who come here and do face all the things you say they wont. So you are not being fair & accurate either.

IN FACT- I have seen several people on this forum facing fraud charges & they have big judgments with real big problems & they need just as much help as those who skate through with no problems.

Just becasuse it does not help you, it may very well help someone else.