what not to say?

[suzyqpug]

I had citibank call me friday night. ANd the girl was very sarcastic, well I called her an idiot and told her to repeat something cause i wanted to write it down and she said no i wil not repeat it and then i called her a dumb s word. She then said fine i will hang up and call you back again and again. I told her that was harassing me and she said no what? hat can i say to these creditors? Cause I do not want them to be able to use this against me neither?

What do i say when they call and say you missed a payment?
I haven't gone to an attoryney yet but thats where i beleive i am headed.

[FreshLikeADaisy]

SuzyQ, first I would find out if it was Citibank, or a third paty Citbank collector: the FDCPA only applies to third party collectors and not the original lender. Then I would find out if I live in a one-party or two-party state, in terms of recording phone calls. A one-party state (most are) means that if just one party is aware that the call is being recorded, it's perfectly legal, and a cheap telephone recording device can be had via Radio Shack for $25 or so, last I heard.

The reason I say this is because the FDCPA specifically prohibits using the telephone to harass or for a collector to cause it to ring in a repeated and harassing manner. That she even told you she was going to in advance.... mmm, I'd love to have that happen to me.

Basically, unless you have money to pay them and can work out pmt arrangements, there is no point in interacting personally with creditors on the phone, unless you have been past due for many months and are stringing them along in order to avoid judgement, for whatever reason. But that's not your situation, so I don't see any point in answering the phone at all. And yes, Citibank is especially nasty. I had perfect (and I do mean perfect) credit with them since 1992, and when I started missing payment they went after me as though I were the devil himself. I'm not surprised you had the experience you describe; it's about par for what I could expect from them if I bothered to pick up the phone. So I didn't. Found out later I lost nothing by not talking with them.

I would strongly recommend you read through the stickies on FDCPA and do a little research on it, so that you know what is and is not against the law, and can proceed from there. Good luck!!!

[Rintaro]

Request Debt validation

I had citibank call me friday night. ANd the girl was very sarcastic, well I called her an idiot and told her to repeat something cause i wanted to write it down and she said no i wil not repeat it and then i called her a dumb s word. She then said fine i will hang up and call you back again and again. I told her that was harassing me and she said no what? hat can i say to these creditors? Cause I do not want them to be able to use this against me neither?

What do i say when they call and say you missed a payment?
I haven't gone to an attoryney yet but thats where i beleive i am headed.

An Attorney is a good idea, What you Do Not want to say is that you agree that the debt is valid and that you do owe it, The next step is for you to write them a Request for Debt Validation. There are links in this forum for letter templates on how to request Debt validation from a creditor. I have pasted a sample Below of what i send to creditors.

When You are on the phone with them always get a name, contact number, Company name , Case or Account Number, Amount they say you owe,original Creditor ( if a collection agency is calling) and complete address. Do Not admit to oweing the debt and do not reveal any additional info such as employment or banking info if they ask you can reply by saying they already have the information if they have the original credit agreement.

I would be careful about mentioning BK It may cause them to expidite action against you ( Judgement ect..) Keep them thinking you are still available and simply want to validate any info beofre you agree to any payment terms.

Do Not sign up for any payments electronically or otherwise. if You do send a payment and the debt has already passed the Statue of Limitations then by paying you will have just agreed the debt valid and renwed the statue.

Good Luck

Sample Debt Validation Letter

Your Name
Your address
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

USA Collection Bureau, Inc.
123 Collection Way
Anytown, USA 12345
January 16, 2007

Re: Acct# XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

to whom it may concern:

This letter is being sent to you in response to a notice sent to me on January 9th, 2008. Please be advised that this is not a refusal to pay, but a notice sent pursuant to the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, 15 USC 1692g Sec. 809 (b) that your claim is disputed and validation is requested.

This is NOT a request for "verification" or proof of my mailing address, but a request for VALIDATION made pursuant to the above Title and Section. I respectfully request that your offices provide me with competent evidence that I have any legal obligation to pay you.

Please provide me with the following:

1. What the money you say I owe is for
2. Explain and show me how you calculated what you say I owe
3. Provide me with copies of any papers that show I agreed to pay what you say I owe
4. Provide a verification or copy of any judgment if applicable
5. Identify the original creditor.
6. Prove the Statute of Limitations has not expired on this account
7. Show me that you are licensed to collect in my state & provide me with your license numbers and Registered Agent.

At this time I will also inform you that if your offices have reported invalidated information to any of the 3 major credit Bureaus (Equifax, Experian or TransUnion) this action might constitute fraud under both federal and State Laws. Due to this fact, if any negative mark is found on any of my credit reports by your company or the company that you represent, I will not hesitate in bringing legal action against you for the following:

1. Violation of the Fair Credit Reporting Act-reporting inaccurate information
2. Violation of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act-continuing collection activity on a debt which has not been validated

Also during this validation period, if any action is taken which could be considered detrimental to any of my credit reports, I will consult with my legal counsel for suit. This includes listing of any information to credit reporting repository that could be inaccurate or invalidated or verifying an account as accurate when in fact there is no provided proof that it is.

REQUEST FOR CEASE AND DESIST OF CONTACT BY YOUR OFFICE: I would also like to request, in writing, no further contact, either in writing or telephone be made by your office to my home or to my place of employment, unless it is to provide validation or release of liability of the debt. If your offices attempt telephone communication with me, including but not limited to computer generated calls and calls or correspondence sent to or with third parties, it will be considered harassment and I will have no choice but to file suit.

It would be advisable that you assure that your records are in order before I am forced to take legal action. This is an attempt to correct your records; any information obtained shall be used for that purpose.

Thank you,

Signature

[jp2861]

First, don't be afraid to talk to these folks when they call. They have a valid right to be calling you. Afterall, you are late on a payment.

When they call, ask who they are...full name, company, address.

Ask what's the call is in reference to.

When they answer what it's in refernce to I simply thanked them for calling and giving me a heads up.

Now, when they start asking you questions simply tell them that you don't discuss personal information over the phone with a caller that you cannot verify. Tell them with todays problems with ID theft you don't feel comfortable discussing personal matters over the phone. Do not discuss facts or give ANY personal information.

End the call by telling them to send everything in writing. Make sure they have your correct address.

Next, wait a while to see if you receive anything in the mail. If this is the Original Creditor calling, (or sending love letters) there's no need to send any validation requests. They will have no problem validating the info and you'll be back to square one regardless. You will probably receive numerous letters over the next weeks/months. Don't panic.

Next, and most important, you need to decide how to handle the debt. Hiding from creditors, not answering phone, etc, is NOT the way to deal with the problem. Hiding won't make it go away, contrary to what you may be told. If a BK is the way to deal with it then go for it. The quicker you deal with it, the quicker you'll start to feel better about the situation.

Just a quick note on DV letters. For the most part they are useless. The only time a DV may benefit someone is if 1) you are 100% sure the debt is NOT yours, or 2) you know the debt has changed hands (sold) a few times and the information may not readily be available to the collector. If you have a recent debt, a DV letter is useless. All it does is stop the collector from calling for 30 days.

[ssdsco]

First, don't be afraid to talk to these folks when they call. They have a valid right to be calling you. Afterall, you are late on a payment.

When they call, ask who they are...full name, company, address.

Ask what's the call is in reference to.

When they answer what it's in refernce to I simply thanked them for calling and giving me a heads up.

Now, when they start asking you questions simply tell them that you don't discuss personal information over the phone with a caller that you cannot verify. Tell them with todays problems with ID theft you don't feel comfortable discussing personal matters over the phone. Do not discuss facts or give ANY personal information.

End the call by telling them to send everything in writing. Make sure they have your correct address.

Next, wait a while to see if you receive anything in the mail. If this is the Original Creditor calling, (or sending love letters) there's no need to send any validation requests. They will have no problem validating the info and you'll be back to square one regardless. You will probably receive numerous letters over the next weeks/months. Don't panic.

Next, and most important, you need to decide how to handle the debt. Hiding from creditors, not answering phone, etc, is NOT the way to deal with the problem. Hiding won't make it go away, contrary to what you may be told. If a BK is the way to deal with it then go for it. The quicker you deal with it, the quicker you'll start to feel better about the situation.

Just a quick note on DV letters. For the most part they are useless. The only time a DV may benefit someone is if 1) you are 100% sure the debt is NOT yours, or 2) you know the debt has changed hands (sold) a few times and the information may not readily be available to the collector. If you have a recent debt, a DV letter is useless. All it does is stop the collector from calling for 30 days.

What are the benefits of talking to a creditor if you're planning to file BK ?

Thanks

[Rintaro]

First, don't be afraid to talk to these folks when they call. They have a valid right to be calling you. Afterall, you are late on a payment.

When they call, ask who they are...full name, company, address.

Ask what's the call is in reference to.

When they answer what it's in refernce to I simply thanked them for calling and giving me a heads up.

Now, when they start asking you questions simply tell them that you don't discuss personal information over the phone with a caller that you cannot verify. Tell them with todays problems with ID theft you don't feel comfortable discussing personal matters over the phone. Do not discuss facts or give ANY personal information.

End the call by telling them to send everything in writing. Make sure they have your correct address.

Next, wait a while to see if you receive anything in the mail. If this is the Original Creditor calling, (or sending love letters) there's no need to send any validation requests. They will have no problem validating the info and you'll be back to square one regardless. You will probably receive numerous letters over the next weeks/months. Don't panic.

Next, and most important, you need to decide how to handle the debt. Hiding from creditors, not answering phone, etc, is NOT the way to deal with the problem. Hiding won't make it go away, contrary to what you may be told. If a BK is the way to deal with it then go for it. The quicker you deal with it, the quicker you'll start to feel better about the situation.

Just a quick note on DV letters. For the most part they are useless. The only time a DV may benefit someone is if 1) you are 100% sure the debt is NOT yours, or 2) you know the debt has changed hands (sold) a few times and the information may not readily be available to the collector. If you have a recent debt, a DV letter is useless. All it does is stop the collector from calling for 30 days.

Actually another reason to use DV letter is if you are 100% sure the Debt has past statue of limitation. Although SOL doesn't prevent them from attempting to collect if they do try to file suit it is a very valid Defense & if CA or OC can not Verify that debt has Not past the staue or if Debtor proves that staue of limitation has expired than the Creditor will most likely not win judgement.
So DV letter is a good tool to use to require the OC, or CA provide info that the debt is indeed still within SOL.

[Rintaro]

What are the benefits of talking to a creditor if you're planning to file BK ?

Thanks

Well if you communate to the enough to get nay information they have ( account #'2, Amount owed, and date of account weather or not SOL has expired ) it is important you have all the correct current info, so if you do go BK you can be sure to include every creditor, likewise if you decide to fight a few Creditors who make seek judgement and you have debts that are old then SOL defense is a good way to go. I do NOT reccomend letting Creditors or Collection Agencies know you are planning BK that will only cause them to act expediantly in filing suit. You don't want to reveal you whole "hand" just get as much info as possible be cooperative and civil with how you speak to them, respect them but do not give up your plan.

[jp2861]

Well if you communate to the enough to get nay information they have ( account #'2, Amount owed, and date of account weather or not SOL has expired ) it is important you have all the correct current info, so if you do go BK you can be sure to include every creditor, likewise if you decide to fight a few Creditors who make seek judgement and you have debts that are old then SOL defense is a good way to go. I do NOT reccomend letting Creditors or Collection Agencies know you are planning BK that will only cause them to act expediantly in filing suit. You don't want to reveal you whole "hand" just get as much info as possible be cooperative and civil with how you speak to them, respect them but do not give up your plan.

Letting them know that you're filing won't make them act any quicker. These people are not stupid and won't just file before doing their homewrok. Before they file they've checked into what you make, where you work, what assets you may have, etc. They will weigh out their costs to sue someone against the chances of collecting or having assets to put a lein against. If they know you're filing, they also know that you'll get the judgement vacated anyway, so they're wasting their time trying to sue you. Definitely better to tell them what's going on.

[jp2861]

Actually another reason to use DV letter is if you are 100% sure the Debt has past statue of limitation. Although SOL doesn't prevent them from attempting to collect if they do try to file suit it is a very valid Defense & if CA or OC can not Verify that debt has Not past the staue or if Debtor proves that staue of limitation has expired than the Creditor will most likely not win judgement.
So DV letter is a good tool to use to require the OC, or CA provide info that the debt is indeed still within SOL.

Sounds good in theory, but they don't have to prove that the SOL expired. Think about what you are saying. If I'm the collector, and I suspect that you'll use the SOL as a defense, do you really think that I'll do the legwork to prove YOUR case. Not gonna happen. SOL is a defense that the debtor has the responsibility to prove.

[FreshLikeADaisy]

First, don't be afraid to talk to these folks when they call. They have a valid right to be calling you. Afterall, you are late on a payment.

When they call, ask who they are...full name, company, address.

Ask what's the call is in reference to.

When they answer what it's in refernce to I simply thanked them for calling and giving me a heads up.

JP, this is solid advice, except that when Citibank would call me, they would never let me get a word in edgewise, even when I would ask who they represented or what the name of their collection agency was. I *literally* had to SCREAM "WHO DO YOU WORK FOR!!!!?" to even get an answer. Their sole purpose was to harass me into some form of payment, NOT to gather information. When Suzy was describing her interaction with them, that was actually one of the *better* experiences I have had! Many times I could not get even the most basic info from them; they would literally raise their voice over mine and deliberately ask me a question and then interrupt the answer.

Part of this may actually be a gender issue: many men I have talked with have much more "manageable" interactions with harassing collectors than women do, and I am soft spoken anyway, so...

Basically, if Suzy can get this info and deal with them the way you suggest, that's great. But if she can't.... *click*. And she loses nothing at all by doing so. Even if they get a judgement against her (worst case scenario) she takes her Motion to Vacate down to the courthouse after her bk and is done with it. She doesn't need to talk with them at all. She can let them go to voicemail if she wants to know who the collection agency is, and just send them a certified letter if she likes. There is nothing at all for her to gain by listening to their abuse or taking their phone calls, when she has the option of communicating with them in writing or even not at all.

[jp2861]

JP, this is solid advice, except that when Citibank would call me, they would never let me get a word in edgewise, even when I would ask who they represented or what the name of their collection agency was. I *literally* had to SCREAM "WHO DO YOU WORK FOR!!!!?" to even get an answer. Their sole purpose was to harass me into some form of payment, NOT to gather information. When Suzy was describing her interaction with them, that was actually one of the *better* experiences I have had! Many times I could not get even the most basic info from them; they would literally raise their voice over mine and deliberately ask me a question and then interrupt the answer.

Part of this may actually be a gender issue: many men I have talked with have much more "manageable" interactions with harassing collectors than women do, and I am soft spoken anyway, so...

Basically, if Suzy can get this info and deal with them the way you suggest, that's great. But if she can't.... *click*. And she loses nothing at all by doing so. Even if they get a judgement against her (worst case scenario) she takes her Motion to Vacate down to the courthouse after her bk and is done with it. She doesn't need to talk with them at all. She can let them go to voicemail if she wants to know who the collection agency is, and just send them a certified letter if she likes. There is nothing at all for her to gain by listening to their abuse or taking their phone calls, when she has the option of communicating with them in writing or even not at all.

I agree. There's no one size fits all when dealing with these people. My suggestion is just a starting point. If the person calling is simply being a jerk..."click" is only way to deal with that. Nobody deserves to be treated like crap.

[ssdsco]

Assuming you have the creditor info needed for filing BK what are the benefits of talking on the phone to a creditor if you're planning to file BK ? All I see is downside and no upside. I may take some pleasure in giving them my BK info but that's it.

Thanks

[epiphany]

Assuming you have the creditor info needed for filing BK what are the benefits of talking on the phone to a creditor if you're planning to file BK ? All I see is downside and no upside. I may take some pleasure in giving them my BK info but that's it.

Thanks

Depends on what's important to you. For me, I see one great big benefit in getting them to stop calling me and more importantly my work, my family, or my friends, by telling them I am going to BK.

That's HUGE for ME. The phone calls drive some of us more nuts than others.

EP

[Keebler]

I talked to all of my creditors whenever I could and I am glad I did.

The calls have been generally pretty easy to cope with. I used an answering machine and learned to ignore the phone if it wasn't convenient for me to answer at that exact moment, but I did answer whenever I could.

It's not for everyone, and I agree there's a chance it'll cause you some trouble. However, I wanted them to feel like they were doing something useful and I wanted to buy time and avoid worse problems.

After a while it got to be a game to talk to them and answer the questions without lying or promising anything I couldn't deliver. They want a payment, and you don't want to give them one, and there's as many ways to say "no" without actually saying "no" as there is ways for them to insist that you pay.

I'm just now having some accounts charge-off and college educated people with good english and offices with doors are calling me trying to avoid the charge-off. They are desperate to get me to send a payment -- any payment -- so they can avoid writing off the account. I really haven't been able to help them because I don't see the point and my bank account continues to be empty every month.

One call passed me up two higher levels where they claimed to be a General Manager and then a Vice President. (If it was true.) The account has a very large balance and I'm sure I have a high-profile because of it. (I was a good customer for almost two decades and an account with a balance big enough to have charged a new SUV.)

In any case, talking to the creditors has helped me to keep track of where I stood with the various levels of collection and exactly when the account would be charged off. I am honestly suprised at the percentage of callers who were compassionate and sincere with me. When the calls were polite and civilized I could even ask them for a break from the auto-dialer for a while and they would frequently agree to postpone calls for a week or more.

If you think you have what it takes to talk to these people without telling a lie or promising anything you can't deliver, then you should go for it. It worked for me.

[treehugger1]

I agree with Keebler via personal experience. Creditors do not fall under the FDCPA unless you have state creditor debt collection laws. I spoke with all of my creditors when they called and I do believe it kept me out of outside collections. Bottom line is that it does not hurt to answer the phone calls of creditors, but don't make promises you can't hold up. Don't offer any financial info including "why you are in your current predicament," don't share yoru empoyment or income info, etc. Tell them you cannot share personal financial issues over the phone but welcome any written information they can send to you.

Once you are in collections, the rules change.

But, in my case it has served me well to speak with everyone, and record every call.

Every situation is different, but I doubt that speaking with original creditors hurts you. Keep in mind that creditors are losing billions in write-downs and charge-offs. I think they are currently willing to speak with you.

Just my opinions.