How do they find out where you bank...

[BearChaser303]

I have a judgement against me for a particular debt. I will be filing chapter 7 any day now, but I am curious how they find out where I bank to garnish an account? I know they could check a credit report for hints, but what if I bank somewhere that is not mentioned on any credit report and I have never paid this creditor from that account either by paper check or electronically. Will they still be able to find it and if so how do they do it?

I'm just wondering, because I pulled my credit report tonight and noticed that the creditors attorney pulled my report yesterday so they must be digging for something.

[CindyLou]

There is a national banking data base of some kind that is tied to your ss# I think.....

[HHM]

There is a national banking data base of some kind that is tied to your ss# I think.....

Unless you know...I think you should not post "speculation"

There actually is NO central database that someone can search to find your bank accounts that is 100% accurate. Finding where someone banks (legally) is somewhat of a challenge. The methods are
1. Check a person's credit report. Generally, many credit applications ask for banking information. This is how banking information gets reported on CRA's. But this information can be outdated. But, for a collector to do this, they must have a "permissible" purpose under FCRA for accessing this aspect of your credit report.
2. Finding prior civil or criminal filings that detail financial history (i.e. like bankruptcy, divorce, etc)
3. Finding UCC filings to locate credit apps (i.e. you would request the app from the party that filed the UCC
4. Dumpster diving
5. Locating images of checks the debtor used to pay an account.
6. Sending the debtor a check "as a prize". Once the debtor cashes the check, all the routing information is contained on the returned check.

[CindyLou]

Unless you know...I think you should not post "speculation"

Maybe I should have worded it differently. It said "I think" in order to solicit information from other members regarding whether it exists. I should have phrased it as a question.

However, I lost my wallet last year. When I called the 24hour line on the back of my Orchard credit card I got the main line to the VISA lost card center instead of Orchard because it was late at night.

They asked for my social and were able to pull up every visa and master card tied to my social AND identified whether each card was credit or debit. They cancelled all of my cards in one call, including my debit card. They informed me this a national data base that holds credit card and banking information on any account that holds a visa or mastercard whether it be credit or debit.

Now whether any creditor can access that data base, I don't know. but the fact that it exists freaked me out a little..(though it saved me a few phone calls)

[CindyLou]

FYI...

National Check Fraud Center
Legal Ways to Locate Bank Accounts

The following information has been compiled from various sources to aid law information, bank investigators, law firms and researchers who are in need to obtain checking account information for investigatory reasons only.

Buy Something from the Defendant
Have someone purchase something from the defendant's store or business. Be sure to pay by check. Naturally, this procedure works best if the defendant runs a business or service operation. If he or she does, it is a relatively simple matter to purchase something from the defendant. If the he or she performs a service, simply hire him or her to work for you. If, as an attorney, you think your subject will not fall for this method, use a third party in your place. I warn you not to involve a third party in an undercover operation if you believe there is the slightest chance for violence.

This seemingly simple task can lead to some unusual situations. I had a case against a debtor who ran a small retail establishment. My goal was to simply go into the store and purchase something with a check so I could obtain the store's bank account number. The business was located close to Martin Luther King Boulevard in a predominately black area of town. It was quite a challenge for a white guy to look inconspicuous under these circumstances.

Sure enough, in my next bank statement was the debtor's bank account information on the back of the check I had written him for merchandise bought in his store.

UCC Filings - File Copy from the Secretary of State
A search should be made of Uniform Commercial Code filings. The bank that loaned the defendant money may be the same bank he or she uses personally.

The debtor will probably obtain financing from a bank that he or she normally does business with. This makes sense. The debtor will usually have a better chance of obtaining a loan from a bank he or she already has a banking relationship with.
Once the debtor's probable bank is identified, you have at least two bites of the apple in obtaining the debtor's bank account. The debtor may have applied to the same bank for a loan.

UCC Filing - Loan Application from the Secured Party
Keep in mind what purpose that a UCC-1 filing serves. It is to provide notice to the public that the secured party has an interest in the debtor's property. This is generally from the secured party loaning money to the debtor. The debtor does this by filling out a loan application and financial statement. This information should contain the debtor's bank account information.

UCC Filings - Check from the Secured Party to the Debtor
In a loan situation the bank will issue a check to the debtor. The debtor will deposit the check in his or her bank account. As the check makes it's way back to the issuing bank the debtor's bank account number will be on the back of the check issued by the bank. If you subpoena the secured party for a copy of this check it will show the document trail including the name and account number of the bank the debtor actually deposited the check.

UCC Filing - Copy of the Debtor's Checks
The debtor is obligated to pay the secured party back for it's loan each month--presumably with a check. All you have to do is subpoena the targeted bank for the above information--any loan applications and/or financial statements of the debtor, any checks the bank issued to the debtor, and the debtor's checks over a period of several months.

Previous Landlord-- Rental Application
Subpoena the previous landlord of the defendant for a copy of the rental application to see where the defendant banked. Most people are usually creatures of habit. Once a banking relationship is established, it generally remains the same.

Previous Landlord-- Security Deposit, Canceled Check
Now, the above information may be outdated. However, there are two additional sources of records that the landlord has regarding the debtor's bank account. One is the security deposit and cleaning refund check that was given to the tenant / debtor upon move out. The debtor may have deposited this check in his bank account. The landlord or the landlord's bank has a copy of this check. The debtor's bank account information should be on the backside.

Previous Landlord-- Copies of the debtor's Rent Checks
During the rental period the tenant/debtor probably paid the landlord by check. The landlord may cooperate or you may have to subpoena him to obtain this information. The landlord will claim he does not have access to these checks. This may be a true statement. The fact of the matter that the bank microfilmed every check the landlord deposited in his account. This includes the Debtor's rent checks.

Blanket Levy
This technique involves serving a Writ of Execution and a Bank Levy on every bank in the area. This procedure assumes that you will hit an account eventually and that the debtor will bank within only a few mile radius of his home or work. It is rumored that the IRS has used this tactic in the past. For obvious reasons, this technique works best in a small town.

Debtors Examinations
At this proceeding you can demand that the debtor tell you where his bank account is. The unfortunate effect of this procedure is that the defendant can take most (if not all) of his money out of the account before you can get to it. However, do not dismiss the usefulness of the examination too quickly. Not all debtors are Einstein's. Some debtors do not think to empty their bank accounts. Additionally, there is actual value in finding a bank account with only a few bucks in it or even one that has already been closed. The value is in the microfilmed records the bank will retain on the account.

Just think about it for a second. What documents would a debtor deposit in his bank account? If you answered any of the followings: the debtor's payroll check, the debtor's spouse's payroll check, stock dividend checks, rental income checks, you would be right! Each category of information is extremely valuable to a creditor enforcing a judgment. What is more, the debtor will probably take the funds from his now defunct account and--probably in the form of a check from his old account--deposit it in a new account.

Employer
If you know the debtor's employer you may consider serving a Business Record Subpoena on the employer to obtain a copy of a payroll check the debtor has "cashed". The check should have the defendant's account number and possibly the name of the bank on the back of it.

Current Landlord--Rental Application
The current landlord probably has a rental application on file that show the defendant's bank account.

Current Landlord--Past Check
Subpoena from the current landlord a copy of the defendant's past month's rent check.

Current Landlord--Current Rent Checks
Subpoena from the current landlord a copy of the defendant's current month's rent check.

Trash Search
Some investigative agencies such as the IRS, FBI, local law enforcement agencies, and private investigators will conduct trash searches. The information obtained will reveal the bank where the defendant has an account in addition to probably more information than you ever wanted to know about the defendant. In fact, a trash search tells so much about a debtor that it is absolutely scary. Think I am kidding? Tell you what, to every person who reads this and for an instant thinks this technique will not work, I have an exercise for you. Go through your own trash for a one week period. Write down everything that you can conclude about your household--likes and dislikes in foods and cosmetics, medications, personal correspondence, etc., etc. Are you now considering incinerating your own trash?

Yard Sale
This is an unusual procedure reserved for the stout of heart. It will not work if the defendant knows you on sight. The way it works is to send post cards to everyone who lives on the defendant's block. The post card should read something like, "Block yard sale this weekend". Put up a few signs directing traffic on the appropriate day. The defendant will be caught up in the excitement and open his garage to sell his unwanted items. First, this is a great chance to view the defendant at home, up close and personal. Take covert inventory of the defendant's assets. Second, buy something from the defendant and pay by check.

Telephone Records (Search Warrant Required)

State Sales Tax Permits
The application for a Sales Tax permit requires that the business list it's bank account. This is certainly true of the current sales tax permit for California. It is probably true for other states as well.

Employment Development Department Permit
The Employment Development Department application, an permit that allows an employer to hire employees, normally requires that the business list it's bank account.

Divorce records, community property settlement
Sometimes these records contain a wealth of financial information, including: the name and account number of checking, savings, brokers, stocks, credit cards and bonds account. Often the description and address of private property and the make, model and license number of vehicles also are included in the divisions of property papers.



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[BearChaser303]

Thanks for all the info, very interesting. The bank I am concerned about is not local, it is an internet only bank headquartered out of state. Since I have never paid this creditor from that account I think it is probably safe, although I guess nothing is guaranteed.

[CindyLou]

Personally, if I were in danger of any judgements or levys I would not keep any money in any account. Why even chance it? Before I filed I turned any xtra money into travelers checks and copies of the stubs to my mom for safe keeping in case of fire or theft.

There was no way I was going to lay awake at night and worry about my money being taken. Creditors have ways of finding out. How long ago did you open that internet account? If less than two years ago, look at your credit report closely...there is probably and inquiry from when you opened it. This is something the creditor can see when they look at your credit report.

I wouldn't chance it.

[BearChaser303]

My attorney recommended that I dont take the money out, but I will discuss it again with him on Monday. The account has been open since 2004 and there is no hint of it on any of my credit reports from Experian, Equifax and Trans Union.

[magyar123]

Thank you Cindylynn for your informative long post about how creditors are able to find out where you bank. In your "employer" related segment you should have also mentioned that since a lot of employers submit the pay through direct deposit, the employer has your banking information. So it's not only the information from the back of the payroll check that would give out someone's banking information.
However if you get a regular check you can always cash it at the local supermarket, or at any of those check cashing places.

[CindyLou]

Thank you Cindylynn for your informative long post about how creditors are able to find out where you bank. In your "employer" related segment you should have also mentioned that since a lot of employers submit the pay through direct deposit, the employer has your banking information. So it's not only the information from the back of the payroll check that would give out someone's banking information.
However if you get a regular check you can always cash it at the local supermarket, or at any of those check cashing places.

Good point! I had copied and pasted the info from the National Check Fraud Center...but your added info would be of great benefit to the article!!

We do so many things on a daily basis for our convenience that we forget how vunerable we leave ourselves and how much of our private information we share with others.

I had NO IDEA the IRS would dig in my trash!!!! That freaks me out!

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Hey, would the mods consider making this a sticky? I'd sure like to be able to find this info again if I needed it. I have certainly wondered about this and I know other people do too.

[lrprn]

Hey, would the mods consider making this a sticky?

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