Pre-collections contact by third-part collectors?

[Keebler]

I've got four accounts that seem to have been referred to collectors -- but not exactly.

I've been contacted by four different organizations regarding four different accounts for the purposes of collecting a debt. I know that the original creditors have kind of given up and I know these third-parties are involved to make the situation seem worse than it is. One is a law firm that's know to frequently violate the FDCPA and one other is a collections agency that was punished by the FTC with a record fine for doing the same.

I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with this or advice.

I know these third parties haven't been assigned the debt or bought it because I ask for the address I should send payments to and it is always the original creditor.

I've given a couple of them a hard time by saying that I had not been notified in writing that they are handling my account. One of them got really pissy with me and I even made them get mad and hang up the phone.

Tonight I read the following...

...and none of the three have notified me within the five days as prescribed. In fact, just one has even sent me ANYTHING in writing.

They're already pretty grumpy because I've insisted that I won't provide any information they don't already have until I've been notified in writing that they're handling my account.

I'm not the kind to hide from these jerks and I love to push them around when they try to push me around.

Should I inform them that they're already violating the FDCPA?

How will I know when they actually OWN the debt?

Some others have done hard-pulls of my credit report. I should be able to dispute these, right?

[jp2861]

I believe the rule you posted pertains to 3rd party collectors. You bring up a good point for the beginner trying to figure this all out, which is, how does someone know if the collector is a 3rd party junk dealer or a lawyer that has been hired by the original creditor.

[ssdsco]

Should I inform them that they're already violating the FDCPA?

No. I would record the calls, keep the caller ids and take it to an attorney. If they're in violation I believe you can collect $1000 plus attorney fees.

Be sure to exercise your rights under 3,4,5 within 30 days of their letter. If they continue collection efforts before responding with the requested info that's another $1000+. Also when I ask for this info I request that all future communication be done in writing and stop all calls.

I believe FDCPA applies to any collection efforts done by anyone other than the original creditor.

I'm new to all of this so take it with a grain......

[treehugger1]

You can simply state you are disputing this debt in you letter. Then ask them to verify and validate in its entirety, stating 1 - 5. They are legally obligated to mail you a letter witin 5 days of initial contact. As mentioned, record the call under whatever your state laws allow and build a record of violations. Hopefully, you have not discussed any part of the debt with these folks.

When any collection company calls, you should simply play fearful of ID theft. I would not give any info over the phone other than your name and address. I refuse to verify SSN, biethdate, etc over teh phone. Once the CA or CA law firm has your name and address, they can send info via the 5-day rule.

I have four accounts (all under $1000) that went to CA 6 months ago. I requested verification of the debt immediately upon receiving their letters (return receipt) and also stated they cannot contact me by any method other than US mal. I have never heard from these folks again. I'm sure the debt will surface in the future, but for now its simply rotting at the bottom of a pil somewhere.

There are some big national CA's that collect for some big credit card companies. They always say on their dunning letters that payments should be made to the OC. This is still a collection activity by a third party, so they are accountable to the FDCPA.

Let them know you understand your rights.

I'm with you, I don't mind answering the phone and playing their games without giving up any informaton. In fact, the more of their timeyou take, the less commissions they put in their pockets. I woud think that eventually they would "get it." But, who knows. I think bi debts start at the bottom nd as each CA fails to get any payment, the debt moves up the ldder until you get a call or letter from a "legal firm." Even then, its not necessarily true you are speaking with anyone who actually practices law. It is when the summons comes that you know you reached the top LOL.

[Westlane]

I have ignored their calls because I read somewhere that if you speak with them they can say that you confirmed the debt. And sometimes they post it on your credit report and re-age your debt date....but I do like the idea of wasting THEIR time for a change!

[Keebler]

I have ignored their calls because I read somewhere that if you speak with them they can say that you confirmed the debt. And sometimes they post it on your credit report and re-age your debt date....but I do like the idea of wasting THEIR time for a change!

I'm not too afraid about confirming the debt because there's no doubt it's mine.

There's only one case where these folks have touched my credit report because they did a hard pull that I'll need to dispute when the time is right. None of the cards they represent have reported charged-off yet and none of these folks are reporting directly at all.

[treehugger1]

Keebler, I agree that if you know you owe the debt, you should play along. If you owe it, eventually they (CA) will be able to validate. I have had some accounts bounce between CA's and the OC (I don't think the CA actually owns the debt and therefore cannot legally report to a credit reporting agency.) Like you, none of these contacts is reporting to my credit files. I don't think they own the debt. Maybe someone with more experience can elaborate on when a collection agency can report to a credit reporting company.

I have one charge-off showing but I have an outside agreement to pay reduced payments to the original creditor. I think they reported a charge-off about one day before we agreed on a special payment plan. I can fix this later on.

[Keebler]

Well, another account has passed in to pre-collections land. The collection agency flat out refused to give me a physical mailing address because they said that I should contact the original creditor for information and to make a payment.

After the second phone call and some terse words I was able to get a supervisor on the phone. I got the address and little else.

The cool part is how I Googled the company name and found personal information regarding the companies management on a web page. I don't know what I'd do with it but I seem to have some home phone numbers and addresses for management including some history for a couple of them from school.


One of my other collectors has sent me a letter demanding payment to them so I believe that I'm now squarely under their control.

[treehugger1]

What are your plans, Keeb? Do you plan to file soon? If not, an dyou received a CA dunning letter, get your return receipt request for validation sent to them in the 30 day window. You have probably read some of my posts around the board here, so i won't rant too much. Most of my creditors yielded and are working with me. I still have about 5-6 accounts floating around somewhere in collection land. All of these received limited C&D letters from me and my request for validation. I never heard back from them. A couple of accounts were in CA's not registered in my state. A wonderful woman at the state consumer finance department sent them nasty letters, and i have never heard back from them either.

With the holiday season coming, I don't know how long I'll hold out, but worse case scenario, I can withstand a suit or two and temporary garnishment.

I've noticed that several big cc companies have some type of agreement with big national CA's to send me these bizarre dunning letters that state "Make checks payable to such-and-such credit card company." I usually ignore these and call the CC company directly. They put me on some mysterious "hardship" type programs for 30 - 60 days and then I don't hear from the CA's for a while. I've been riding these horses for 12 - 18 months now. You have to wonder if the big CC companies will eventually develop a bit of kindness and understanding. There is only so much they can write off without their stock values declining. LOL

It was a lot easier when I could afford to pay everyone their monthly amount. Not being able to pay everyone everything they want is a lot of work.

[Keebler]

What are your plans, Keeb? Do you plan to file soon? If not, an dyou received a CA dunning letter, get your return receipt request for validation sent to them in the 30 day window. You have probably read some of my posts around the board here, so i won't rant too much. Most of my creditors yielded and are working with me. I still have about 5-6 accounts floating around somewhere in collection land. All of these received limited C&D letters from me and my request for validation. I never heard back from them. A couple of accounts were in CA's not registered in my state. A wonderful woman at the state consumer finance department sent them nasty letters, and i have never heard back from them either.

With the holiday season coming, I don't know how long I'll hold out, but worse case scenario, I can withstand a suit or two and temporary garnishment.

I've noticed that several big cc companies have some type of agreement with big national CA's to send me these bizarre dunning letters that state "Make checks payable to such-and-such credit card company." I usually ignore these and call the CC company directly. They put me on some mysterious "hardship" type programs for 30 - 60 days and then I don't hear from the CA's for a while. I've been riding these horses for 12 - 18 months now. You have to wonder if the big CC companies will eventually develop a bit of kindness and understanding. There is only so much they can write off without their stock values declining. LOL

It was a lot easier when I could afford to pay everyone their monthly amount. Not being able to pay everyone everything they want is a lot of work.

My experience and situation sounds similar to yours. I haven't saved a penny for the attorney at this point and there's medical expeses we're expecting in the weeks ahead. My goal is to hold out long enough to put most of the medical junk behind me. The last thing I want to do is file and then get hit with some huge bills later.

I've been reading the FDCPA and some of the advice regarding validation. I can't decide if it really makes sense for me to stick my neck out and demand validation when the calls and "harrassment" haven't been very difficult to deal with. The only reason I see to mess with these folks is to throw a couple of hurdles in the road to make it a little more difficult for them to file a lawsuit and easier to defend myself. I think I'd rather let them call and harrasse me if it makes them feel like they're accomplishing something.

The FDCPA is difficult because there's not a clear boundary between contracted collectors and collectors who own the debt. I suspect there's some advantage to they way they have been operating. It seems like I spend some time being called by the collection agency and owing the money to the original creditor followed by owing the money to the agency.

At the very least this process blurrs the time guidelines of the FDCPA by making it unclear when the collection agency owns the debt. For example the FDCPA specifies a five day period from the time of first contact to meeting the Dunning Letter requirement. The problem for me is the 30 day window the FDCPA specifies for the Validation demand. There's no point in me making the demand for validation if the collection agency is working as an agent for the original creditor. Only after the debt has been sold does it do me any good but the 30 days has already passed by then.

Has anyone else figured this out?

[scaredneko]

I just recieved one of these letters in regards to my Wachovia account. Have never spoken with them. It was from IC Systems. Not sure if I should dispute it or not to buy time, I know I owe the debt I used the card to pay for my x wifes court costs and then our divorce.

I just recieved a statement from them today with only a minimum payment due not the full 9k. so made me wonder if IC systems has or not and if I shoudl dispute IC or what until I get a more threating letter. Trying to hold off as long as possible to file I havent used the card since early sept when I had to force scgeduling a hearing to get her respond and finialise the divorce paperwork.

Suggestions would be welcome. Im hoping to hold off until April filing a 7.

[Keebler]

I just recieved one of these letters in regards to my Wachovia account. Have never spoken with them. It was from IC Systems. Not sure if I should dispute it or not to buy time, I know I owe the debt I used the card to pay for my x wifes court costs and then our divorce.

I just recieved a statement from them today with only a minimum payment due not the full 9k. so made me wonder if IC systems has or not and if I shoudl dispute IC or what until I get a more threating letter. Trying to hold off as long as possible to file I havent used the card since early sept when I had to force scgeduling a hearing to get her respond and finialise the divorce paperwork.

Suggestions would be welcome. Im hoping to hold off until April filing a 7.

IC System is one I have experience with. They seem to be acting as an agent for the original creditor for me so far.

Ask them where payments should be mailed and that'll give you a clue. If payments go back to the original creditor then they must be acting as an agent. If they demand payments directly to them then they must own the debt.

From my experience, IC System seems to follow the rules by sending proper notification.

The other extreme is the call I got from some other company. I demanded to know their mailing address and they hung up on me!

[TroubleinCalif]

IC System is one I have experience with. They seem to be acting as an agent for the original creditor for me so far.

Ask them where payments should be mailed and that'll give you a clue. If payments go back to the original creditor then they must be acting as an agent. If they demand payments directly to them then they must own the debt.

From my experience, IC System seems to follow the rules by sending proper notification.

The other extreme is the call I got from some other company. I demanded to know their mailing address and they hung up on me!

I just started getting calls from IC Systems. First one was like intro phone call, gave them a speech and that was that. Second call same thing, Today i get a call from them and this girl starts her speech ect. I give her my story that i have been sticking to for the last 3-4 months with the CC companys. She started to go a little hardline with me and she was a young girl. So i started a little hard ball back and said it was a good possibility i was going to file BK7. Thats when she turned into this 15 year old sounding valley girl, chearleader, Furshure sounding brat and said well, You do what you think is best, but i will just call you everyday, to which i replied, Please do, I'm at the number you reached so anytime you want to talk , I'll be hear for ya! Well of course she hung up, it was pretty laughable, since im filing my BK7 shortly. No big deal......