Is there ANY way to keep my $14K car w/$3K car exemption?

[SinkingFast]

It's easy to judge when you do not know what happened. My dog had a liver torsion on May 29th. It almost killed her and required $5000 for a week of vet bills. They still couldn't figure out what happened. Three weeks later the same thing happened and cost $4500. This time they properly diagnosed it as a right-lobe liver torsion and removed that part of her liver. My feeling is that when you take on the responsibility of being a pet owner, you need to follow through. You just don't throw the dog out when times get rough. Would you put a grandparent, child, or other family member down because you were having financial hardship? I know I wouldn't. I'd rather live in a box before doing that, and just might be.

I did not come here to be scrutinized, but rather to get an answer to a simple question. If anyone happens to know the answer, great! I appreciate it. If you do not know the answer and would rather pass judgement, I guess that's your choice. Not very helpful though.

No I wouldn't. I'd see to it my children and/or their children got the medical care they needed.

You obviously did not read my post carefully. When the Vet said $700 for surgery 15 years ago, I HAD to think of my own children first.

Should I have paid for the cat and let my own children's health go??!!

I don't mean to start an arguement. You did what you did.

I was trying to give you perspective on how the Court thinks.

Did you not see that I also said that other people here have been denied their own pet expenses??!!

When you go to BK Court, it's not about what you actually spend. It's about what's customary in your area, and what the Trustee will or won't allow.

Many Trustee's don't consider pet expenses necessary and will summarily cut pet expenses out of a debtor/filer's Schedule J.

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[SinkingFast]

SF - are you saying that possibly that particular debt will not be discharged? At the Trustee's discretion?

Nope. Not saying that at all.

Just that pets aren't on the same level as people in the eyes of the Court. Many folks here have commented when they filed, the Trustee whacked out their pet expense $$/mo.

According to what Blue said, if his/her attny would file it, Blue would be saying he/she had approx $1K/mo in pet expenses. Based on previous bills paid.

BK Law is about what's necessary for the Debtor and the Debtor's dependents. Generally speaking Dependents are people listed on your income taxes.

While a person may feel very passionately about their pets, in BK Court, pets are just that. Pets. Not Debtor's Dependents.

If Blue's attny actually filed for $1K/mo in pet expenses then the animal better be a show dog or breeding stock for income purposes. Otherwise, the Trustee is gonna whack that expense right out of Schedule J.

[FoolAndHisMoney]

Anyway you can get "unburnt out" and restart up another business in your field? Those high student loans just made the hair on the back of my neck stand up .
If you can at least get a regular income you can do a chapter 13 and keep the car as long as you pay the unsecureds the non exempt value. This will also give you a break for a while on the 200k student loans. You will have some time to take a deep breath and figure out your next move. If you want to let the car go then you will get a 7 and still have the loans.

[FilingOnMyOwn]

It's easy to judge when you do not know what happened. My dog had a liver torsion on May 29th. It almost killed her and required $5000 for a week of vet bills. They still couldn't figure out what happened. Three weeks later the same thing happened and cost $4500. This time they properly diagnosed it as a right-lobe liver torsion and removed that part of her liver. My feeling is that when you take on the responsibility of being a pet owner, you need to follow through. You just don't throw the dog out when times get rough. Would you put a grandparent, child, or other family member down because you were having financial hardship? I know I wouldn't. I'd rather live in a box before doing that, and just might be.

I did not come here to be scrutinized, but rather to get an answer to a simple question. If anyone happens to know the answer, great! I appreciate it. If you do not know the answer and would rather pass judgement, I guess that's your choice. Not very helpful though.

I'm with sinking on this one. Animals are not people. Growing up, my family was poor. When we took a pet to the vet, it often got put to sleep. But then we'd adopt another poor needy animal from a shelter that would have ultimately gotten put to sleep itself if it weren't adopted. I don't mean to be insensitive, but why spend 10k on one or two pets? Think of how many animals you could save if you donated 10,000$ to the humane society..... Dozens.

[anonymuse]

Ask away.

I have a bachelors in fine arts, then went to a masters of arts program which I ditched in order to get an MS in Oriental Medicine. I had a 6 figure salary as a licensed acupuncturist in private practice, but closed my practice 2 years ago because I got burnt out. I mismanaged my money, and my degrees are so specific that I cannot get a job with any of them besides self-employment, and it takes years to get any new business afloat. I was in the process of starting a new business when I got hit with doggie medical bills. The bills, combined with past debt, combined with a recent relocation to another part of the country, combined with student loans looming with a minimum of $1000 due per month have done me in. I've been putting this off for months as I have always been one to pay on time and have taken pride in my crystal clear credit, but it's time to face reality. I can no longer even pay my rent with these astronimical cc bills. I need a clean slate to start from because there is no way to get out from under this.

Start thinking outside the box for a job. Not sure how much you went into the physiology & biochemistry of things with your degree, but are you a good writer? Maybe you could be a tech writer for one of the pharmaceutical companies around here. There is so much to do with holistic health around the Boulder area, I'm wondering if there's some kind of off shoot that would interest you?

[cr2285]

How about getting a loan using your vehicle as collateral (thus eating up all your equity in it) and using that money to fix up some things around the house?

[CRRAVOSA]

Are you claiming state or federal exemotions, if federal use the wild card 522(d)(5). Loans may be dischargeable, usually not, but maybe you can get them reduced, however a complaint to determine dischargeability is something that I would not recommend Pro Se filers to handle on their own. At 200k you have nothing to lost but perhaps some legal fees and so much to gain, it is a gamble but you should speak to someone who has done this before or look at cases in your state.

[anonymuse]

Loans may be dischargeable, usually not, but maybe you can get them reduced, however a complaint to determine dischargeability is something that I would not recommend Pro Se filers to handle on their own. At 200k you have nothing to lost but perhaps some legal fees and so much to gain, it is a gamble but you should speak to someone who has done this before or look at cases in your state.

Usually NOT. I've read some cases of people with serious disabilities that can't even get them discharged. This is extremely extremely difficult to do--and possibly a waste of money.

Most districts use the Brunner test to evaluate the dischargeability of the debt.

The three-part Brunner test required the debtor to prove:

1) That the debtor cannot maintain, based on current income and expenses, a minimal standard of living if forced to repay the student loans;

2) That additional circumstances exist indicating that this state of affairs is likely to persist for a significant portion of the repayment period of the student loans; and

3) The debtor has made good faith efforts to repay the loans.

Under the Brunner analysis, if the court finds against the debtor on any of the three parts, the inquiry ends and the student loan is not dischargeable.

I read of a case where a mother had serious MS, divorced, and cared for the two children. She passed 1 & 2; but since she had only been making minimum payments it was not considered enough for good faith payments--thus she was discharged.

See this post for other ways courts handle it:

http://www.bankruptcyforum.com/showthread.php?t=7698

[Fedler]

You spent $200,000 on an education and "burned out" after 2 years? I don't buy it. Sounds like you just didn't like it. Too bad you blew your financial future on it.

You have to pay it all back. No way out. You'll be paying on that until you die.

[ugh]

This forum is great and can be very helpful, it's unfortunate that a few forum goers prefer to criticize rather offer support. You should not be criticized for loving your family, including your pets. What's done is done and instead of ridiculing past choices, we should offer advice and/or support for the future.

[anonymuse]

You spent $200,000 on an education and "burned out" after 2 years? I don't buy it. Sounds like you just didn't like it. Too bad you blew your financial future on it.

You have to pay it all back. No way out. You'll be paying on that until you die.

You've obviously never worked in health care.

[FilingOnMyOwn]

Another idea.... You could sell the car outright, and buy a reliable car for 3k that you know is exemptable. Use the money to get current on whatever bills you have, and stock up on necessities. See if maybe things change for you in the next couple months. If not, you could file 6 months down the road knowing that you tried... I still would hate to see someone file and only be able to discharge 25-30% of their debt...

[AMISLANDER]

Ursorude...