Listing Same creditor with multiple lines on Schedule F / Listing Judgement / Car Val

[indyzz]

Hello. Im filing Chapter 7 pro-se.

I have a few questions.

1a. If I have multiple lines with the same creditor (lets say Amex), I just want to confirm that I have to list each account/debt separately even though the creditor (and their address) is the same.

1b. If the original creditor (OC) sold the debt to a collection agency but is still referenced in the comments as the OC (the collection agency is listed as the creditor), do I have to list that debt twice, once in the name of the collection agency and once in the name of the OC?

2. Do I have to do anything specific if a few of the credit lines were part of judgements against me? Do I list the judgements separately? Or is listing the debt with the creditor's name and address enough?

3. How do I present accident damage to my car so as to reduce its value compared to NADA/KBB value? I was uninsured at the time of said accident. And I could not afford to fix it. Do I just get bodyshop estimates and subtract it from the NADA value? Also, do I use private part retail or trade-in value?

Thanks for your help.

[justbroke]

1a. If I have multiple lines with the same creditor (lets say Amex), I just want to confirm that I have to list each account/debt separately even though the creditor (and their address) is the same.

List each account separately. Make sure you follow the instructions and mask the entire account except for the last 4 digits. You will repeat the addresses. However, for the mailing Matrix, you only need to have unique addresses so don't repeat the address on the Mailing Matrix.

1b. If the original creditor (OC) sold the debt to a collection agency but is still referenced in the comments as the OC (the collection agency is listed as the creditor), do I have to list that debt twice, once in the name of the collection agency and once in the name of the OC?

I would list every possible creditor including the original creditor, and any colleciton agency. Basically, list everything on your credit report plus any one else that you can think of that you owe money. It's a requuirement to name all creditors. Sometimes collection agencies don't own the debt, but are only acting as agent for the original creditor. Just list everyone. For the collection agencies, I put "FOR NOTIFICATION ONLY" in the "description" box when I have also listed the original creditor. I set the value, for the "extra" notification entry, as $0 and mark contingent.

2. Do I have to do anything specific if a few of the credit lines were part of judgements against me? Do I list the judgements separately? Or is listing the debt with the creditor's name and address enough?

Yes, you list judgements, and you must also list these on your Statement of Financial Affairs. (Do you have a guidebook that you're using?) Now, if these judgments have been recorded and are judgment liens, you may have other work to do.

3. How do I present accident damage to my car so as to reduce its value compared to NADA/KBB value? I was uninsured at the time of said accident. And I could not afford to fix it. Do I just get bodyshop estimates and subtract it from the NADA value? Also, do I use private part retail or trade-in value?

For Chapter 7s, you use NADA/KBB/Black Book with the clean trade-in value (which they tend to use as the "wholesale" value). Do you have a loan on this car? If so, and you're redeeming the car, then the value will matter. Otherwise, find the "clean" average trade-in and use your best guess between the rough trade-in and clean trade in values. (This may vary by District. Some Districts only use certain guidebooks (like NADA or Black Book), and some want you to use private party or retail. For Florida, I have only seen NADA (some Black Book) and mostly clean "trade-in".)

[indyzz]

Thank you Justbroke. Im filing in south Florida, just an FYI.

To clarify the points you brought up:

There are no liens resulting from the judgements since I have no "assets" apart from the car I bought (financed actually with a down payment, more info below). Besides the debts that caused the judgements are already on my credit report as collection accounts. So, I list the judgements on the statement of financial affairs? Should I list them separately on the schedule F as well? I have referenced some guidebooks but they are not very clear. Ive also searched google for hours and hours over the past few weeks for information. Is there a specific guidebook you recommend for judgements? I would love to read more.

The car: I owe about 9000 on it (have a loan with Capital One). The KBB clean trade-in value is approximately 11,300. But the damage on the left fender,bumper and headlights is estimated at 1700$. Im hoping to use all my exemptions (including wild card, Im in south Florida) for the car if there is any value above the loan amount. I dont have any money saved up otherwise. I do want to reaffirm the car loan since I doubt I will get another loan after BK. And I have to have the car for my job which pays about $2000 after taxes.

I understand reaffirmation of the car loan brings its own complications since the financing company is Capital One

Thank you for all your helpful info.

Regards.

[justbroke]

The judgments should go on Schedule F as General Unsecured Creditors if they are unrecorded and not "secured" by virtue of a judgment lien. I have not had this issue so I don't have the pleasure of having done this myself. You may need to file a Motion to Avoid Lien in the bankruptcy. I can't tell you how to proceed.

The problem is that Florida judgment liens attach to all property (real and personal). Personal property could be your TV and even your bicycle. (Although recovering any serious money from a used bike isn't really worth the effort.) If you want it to be clean and have no question of the survival of the lien (since all liens survive bankruptcy unless you did something to avoid the lien), then you'd file the Motion to Avoid Lien and list the reasons under the law that the lien should be voided.

[indyzz]

Ok, thanks Justbroke, I will read up more and consult an attorney about the "Motion to Avoid Lien", if necessary.

[justbroke]

Do you know if those judgments have been recorded? You can check your County's "Clerk of the Court" Website and search for "Official Records" to see if there is anything recorded in your name. If the judgment is recorded, then it is a "lien" (a/k/a a judgment lien) upon your property.

[keepmine]

When I filed, my lawyer handled collection agencies very similar to JB's suggestion.
She listed the OC and then below that, typed sold, transfered or, assigned to XYZ with a dollar value of 0 and contingent/disputed.

Here's a thread where some Fl. residents discuss vacating a judment post bk in Fl.

http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.php?75327-Motion-to-Vacate-Judgment

[indyzz]

Do you know if those judgments have been recorded? You can check your County's "Clerk of the Court" Website and search for "Official Records" to see if there is anything recorded in your name. If the judgment is recorded, then it is a "lien" (a/k/a a judgment lien) upon your property.

EDIT: I do see the "final judgement", (from 4 different cases), under the official records search.
Upon further research, I see that only one of the records indicates a judgment (by Amex) filed and recorded. The rest of the records all refer to garnishment for the same case that the judgment was filed for.
For example my Wachovia bank account was garnished for the $165 in it. One of the judgements filed refers to this action.

On the statement of financial affairs, it only asks me to list judgements from within the past year. Should I still list judgements from 2010/11 ?

[indyzz]

When I filed, my lawyer handled collection agencies very similar to JB's suggestion.
She listed the OC and then below that, typed sold, transfered or, assigned to XYZ with a dollar value of 0 and contingent/disputed.

Here's a thread where some Fl. residents discuss vacating a judment post bk in Fl.

edited out URL because it doesnt let me post otherwise

Thanks keepmine for that suggestion. I will follow that. Regards.

[indyzz]

bump

[indyzz]

Thanks all, I filed pro se, now awaiting 341 meet in approx. 2 weeks