Dicharged Mortgage transferred to another Bank

[PANSYFACE]

Ok - this is a little long-winded but I need to know how to proceed:

Bank of America bought out mortgage from Fleet Bank in 2002. We paid it until I lost my job in 2010.

We included the mortgage in our chapter 7, discharged in March 2013.

BOA had never recorded the change from Fleet Bank at the county.... then in November 2013 recorded not only the assignment from Fleet to themselves, also recorded the sale of the mortgage from BOA to Nation Star at the same time.

Nation Star calls us 3-4 times a day!!!! shouldn't BOA have told Nation Star that this mortgage was discharged in bankruptcy???

We are trying to stay and pray in our home of 26+years. Winning the lottery would be good, but not likely.LOL.

Would we speed up foreclosure by alerting Nation Star to the discharge? Are they violating anything?

Any thoughts on this? It's a real pain to have to screen calls again.

thank you.

[justbroke]

They are absolutely violating the discharge injunction. I would answer the phone and quickly tell them that the home was included in Bankruptcy and they are violating the discharge injunction. I would give them the case number and district and date of filing and date of discharge. I would not give them any other information.

If you are paying on time, then I suppose this would not be an issue, but if you are behind in payments, then you are subject to foreclosure. I can't tell you whether they would move any "faster" in a foreclosure, but they seem to be very aggressive with the calling. You can make that stop by answering and giving them only the bankruptcy information and DEMANDING that they stop "attempting to collect a discharged debt".

[Pjmax]

Probably not a bad idea to follow up by mail as well, certified return receipt, 'confirming my phone conversation of X date, with Xperson, . . . .'

In case you ever need proof they were notified.

[tobee43]

this new mortgage company may also ask you to possibly enter into another mortgage agreement. if you intend to stay and want to stay that is a decision you may have to make. however, once you re enter into a new agreement you brought it forever and there is no way to walk away in case your situation changes.

i don't think it's that unusual after that much time as passed that the new mortgage company wants some type of commitment. however, national star is still in violation of the bk code at this point.

[justbroke]

Unfortunately, a new "agreement" would be a violation of the discharge injunction since it would be circumventing the reaffirmation process. The only way to be bound to pay is that a new Mortgage and Promissory Note are executed. This would be an actual refinance of the existing mortgage and note and creates an entirely new debt. If they are pressuring a debtor to sign anything to "reaffirm" or "agree" to the discharged debt, that is also a violation since the discharge precludes any attempts to collect the debt.

You may want to find the address and send a copy of the discharge order, as suggested. I would make it very clear and I would "control" any conversation that I may have with this creditor. Be firm and polite, but keep saying "discharge violation" and "contempt of a court order precluding attempts to collect a discharged debt" while you demand that they stop calling or face "sanctions". Make sure you tell them that you have contacted your attorney and any further calls will result in a motion for sanctions.

This appears to be the only way to stop these discharge violators.

[PANSYFACE]

Thank you all for your help. I was pretty sure that they were violating and I need to look at the first paperwork that they sent me after taking over from BOA. I could swear that they mentioned the bankruptcy!!!! Yes, we are very behind and also looking at reverse mortgages. Not sure if we want to stay or go - they are building "affordable housing" next door and my other neighbor abandoned their house so we are in a weird situation at this point.

Thank you, everyone.

[LadyInTheRed]

Perhaps the letter said that they are not trying to collect on the debt, but are contacting in connection with enforcing their lien on the property. There is a fine line between the two. What do they say when they call?

[justbroke]

LITR, I believe that they should not be calling at all. Everything related to an "in rem" action (foreclosure) is done with paperwork. There is no reason to call unless you are trying to collect a debt. I wiling to go out on a limb and say that repetitive calls, even to say that it's a foreclosure, are unnecessary pressure on a debtor and that should never happen. A single call a week for 2 weeks, may not be undue pressure. A total of 3-4 calls a day, is quite different and is indicative of collection activity, not foreclosure activity.

At least, that's what I see.

[tobee43]

i agree jb. i got the shock the other day when i found out that chase sold my mortgage to another company. they never attempted once to contact us. i didn't eve know about it until i rec'd a 1099 mis for the their punishment payment to us for bad business practices on the bk on saw chase and another bank.

[PANSYFACE]

I have not answered the calls as of yet. They robocall and then after every 3 of those they leave a message asking us to call them.

[Drazil65]

We had a similar situation with our house in Ohio. With BOA originally and they sold to Specialized Loan Servicing right after discharge (March 2012) and then SLS sold to Bay View Servicing (something like that). Last year Bay View kept calling us and sending modification packages in overnite mail. I finally called them back (after speaking with our bankruptcy attorney) and sent certified letter in mail stating this debt was discharged and gave the bankruptcy number and date of discharged. They said the information "is probably in the file somewhere" but they do not have time to read everything . We told them to proceed with foreclosure as it is a rental and left it like that. We have not heard from them since (that was last summer). Good Luck!

[LadyInTheRed]

LITR, I believe that they should not be calling at all. Everything related to an "in rem" action (foreclosure) is done with paperwork. There is no reason to call unless you are trying to collect a debt. I wiling to go out on a limb and say that repetitive calls, even to say that it's a foreclosure, are unnecessary pressure on a debtor and that should never happen. A single call a week for 2 weeks, may not be undue pressure. A total of 3-4 calls a day, is quite different and is indicative of collection activity, not foreclosure activity.

At least, that's what I see.

I agree the calls seem excessive, but we now know that the OP hasn't answered any of them. For all we know, they may be calling to offer a loan modification or settlement. They may also be calling to find out if OP is still in the house. Or they may not realize the loan was discharged because they bought it as part of a huge portfolio of loans. But the OP thinks they may have said something about the BK in the paperwork they sent. That paperwork could be a modification package and Nation Star may be calling to follow up. Maybe not. Maybe they are violating the BK court's injunction. But, I don't think we have enough facts to know if that is the case. It could be that answering the phone once could stop the calls.

[justbroke]

Answering the phone should surely stop the calls. If I received countless calls from BofA, unfortunately my reaction would be to file a motion for sanctions. A Florida BK judge recently awarded over $80K in sanctions for "unanswered" but attempted calls from BofA to a debtor after discharge. The Judge did not even award punitive damages. Those were actual damages of 79 calls at $1,000 per call. There was also one call the day of the hearing, so the judge awarded another $1K for the 80th call. The debtor did not even log all the calls and the calls that were logged were "each" a violation of the injunction and damages were awarded.

As the judge wrote, "It is the linchpin of any Chapter 7 proceeding that a debtor gets a fresh start. In this case, the creditor, Bank of America, simply ignored, in every sense of the word... the discharge injunction." "The debtor received numerous calls in her place of employment and her home before she called her attorney." "If there is even one more call, there will be substantial and additional punitive damages made in favor of the debtor."

I would definitely answer the phone, give them the bankruptcy information, and then log every single call thereafter. The first single call after answering and reminding the creditor that the debt is discharged, should be met with a motion for sanctions.

My position is that we, as Debtors, must stop allowing creditors abuse the discharge injunction and violate the order of discharge. There is excusable neglect, but BofA is a sophisticated multi-national bank and this should not happen.

[PANSYFACE]

I will answer the next one as you all have suggested. I have never been offered a modification and I don't trust these people due to the amazing comments on consumer affairs regarding Nation Star and all the illegal stuff they are pulling on people who were paying their mortgages and since the BOA transfer are having all kinds of weird things happening.

I have looked into a reverse mortgage but not sure I want to go that route.