341 meeting Middle district of Fl went bad.

[Floridagail]

I cannot imagine what the trustee would be objecting too. We claimed all standard exemptions , except for car and business truck (we do get 450 a month for gas and truck expenses) Truck is needed to work. Hubby is filing single. The trustee did ask about the truck and car. Hubby explained the truck is business truck tool of trade.

Can they not allow Mortgage pmt due to us not paying the mortgage in Florida. I read another case in Clermont Florida , where judge ruled they could not claim mortgage pmt 3000 , it in their case,(because they moved to rental)? They were given the rental allowance of 987.00 . We live in our home.

[justbroke]

What you posted before looks like a very "generic" statement of the presumption of abuse. It only reads that you are over-the-median which can be rebutted by showing expenses that reduce the "disposable monthly income" below about $200/month. Since the UST has not actually filed any Motion to Dismiss, we can just sit here and speculate all day.

The UST always has the trump card which is the totality of circumstances objection to discharge. I actually like USTs that file this (sometimes bogus) statement of presumption of abuse so you at least know that they are "interested" in your case and are taking a seriously closer look. I don't like the USTs that, while not an actual ambush, will wait until the day before discharge and file an adversary (AP) with a complaint to dismiss. At least you know that the UST has some issue or issues with your expenses.

Perhaps your attorney can reach out to the UST and find out just what the UST is concerned about. Typically, the UST would ask for more documentation at this point or they already requested documentation at the 341 Meeting and are making an initial determination.

Hang in there. I have seen these go either way.

[tobee43]

we were in the middle district and our old mortgage payment from nj was included because it's a look at where you are, not where you are going to be after you file. (the 6 month snap shot). i mean, after all that's why you are there!

i know i was floored our atty got in our credit card payments and mortgage etc. i recall the trustee's office asking prior to our 341, stating you can't count the cc payments because those payments will be gone, oddly enough not even mentioning the mortgage payment. our firm argued successfully that we wouldn't be filing most likely if the cc companies didn't triple the min payments so they must be included. again, i was floored they won that argument. we are in the clemont area, so i think each case is handled differently as we are all in the HUGE middle district. our means test indicated close to a neg 3k...(it was like 2600 or somewhere around that number) . also most of our income was considered exempt as well. i have a feeling after looking back that we just had so many confusing situations they just didn't want to deal with them.

the middle district has in the past year or two really gotten bad with respect to scrutinizing their cases. going through them with a fine tooth comb. why, no clue. but i'm sure it will all work out well for you. it just HAS to!!

[Floridagail]

Thanks Justbroke and Tobee
We will wait and see what happens.

[tobee43]

well i'm keeping my fingers and toes all crossed for you with a few prayers thrown in. i would just love to see this come to an end for you. heaven knows this has been going on for such a long time for you.

just don't let the stress get to you. i just know it's all going to be ok.

[AngelinaCat]

Florida does not have a 'Tools of the Trade Exemption'. We found that out after listing all of 'Hub's computer equipment that he used in his computer consulting business. This was something our dear attorney did NOT inform us of. We got to buy this equipment back from the BK Estate. We are also in FL Middle District, but the Jacksonville Courthouse.

[Floridagail]

Then it could be the work truck, however He is -1728.00 disposable income on means test. The truck pmt is 418.00 and we get truck allowance 450.00 for gas and maintance expenses. We anxiously wait for the attorney to call us.

[justbroke]

We are anxiously awaiting as well! We Floridians need to hold these Trustees to the law! (I will say that other than "some" greedy Trustees, Florida is not a bad place to file bankruptcy.)

[Floridagail]

Yeah, apparently a couple trustees are known to be difficult in our district, We happen to get her. Our paralegal had suggested , we hope for Male trustee. No such luck.

[deedeecfl]

We had some issues with Middle Florida at our 341 as well. In fact, we had our trustee and his boss (a female) there as well. They grilled us and our attorney and eventually filed a presumption of abuse. Our income, if you included the unemployment my husband was receiving, put us over the median but the unemployment was going away in a few months because of the length of his unemployment. We had to fight for our discharge and I did so by detailing every monthly expense on an excel spreadsheet and projecting it out to quarterly and yearly. My husband ended up with heart issues just after I did that and the expenses piled up even more. They finally discharged us (no asset) but it was very frustrating. We were taking all of our extra money prior to his losing his job and trying to pay things off to get ready for retirement -- add to those expenses the cost of 3 hurricanes in 2004. I documented everything in a letter (including being downsized by my company just after those 3 hurricanes) to the trustee and included receipts or logs. I think the trustee believed we were squirreling away money somewhere. I wish. I watched a coworker with $300K to 400K in his 401Ks go through Chapter 7 at the same time as us and he skated right through. He just didn't want the two houses he owned so he prepared himself. After the Chapter 7 was discharged, a few months later he went out and bought a house for $200,000 in cash. We surrendered our house in 2010 and the foreclosure sale and certificate of title were done this month. Stick with it and see if your attorney can figure out what they are really looking for and then provide supporting docs. Hang in there!

Yeah, apparently a couple trustees are known to be difficult in our district, We happen to get her. Our paralegal had suggested , we hope for Male trustee. No such luck.

[tobee43]

wow deedeecfl, that is some story.

i just hate that...your example of your coworker. i hope you husband is doing better. all this or that stress certainly did not help.

[ksgirl38]

There are special circumstances with our friend. He does pay child support for his 21 yr old son , for past 17 yrs his pay has been garnished 15% to pay back for when he did not pay. He takes care of his elderly mother who lives with him. That is a lot for a 40 yr old man. His x wife also gets every tax refund he is due each year. So when he happen to win 10K, by chance, we agreed to cash his ticket. He only makes 11.00 hr and hardly gets by. We helped him buy a 200.00 car, which he drives to work.
If not He would not have a job.

If your friend had applied that $10,000 towards his child support wouldn't that have helped him from getting out from under that obligation?

[Floridagail]

No, the lottary ticket after taxes he got 7500.00, His child support is way over 30K due to penalty and interest. He will not pay it off unless he wins a big one. He pays 15% garnishment on his paycheck and his tax return is paid to her, it never goes down due to penalty and interest. He did send his Son some money that year. What gets me, is his xwife never really contributed to his Son upbringing. She lived on welfare as long as she could , never worked. The boy has turned out horrible. He runs the streets will not work. She is PG again now .

He is hoping for promotion at work to be able to buy a better car and 2 bedroom place.

[kmattin]

Sorry you had difficulties. In my opinion, your attorney stinks. CH13 would have gone over better with the trustee.

[LadyInTheRed]

Sorry you had difficulties. In my opinion, your attorney stinks. CH13 would have gone over better with the trustee.

The attorneys who stink are the ones who put somebody who can qualify for a 7 into a 13 just because it will go over better with the trustee. Don't be so quick to judge this attorney. He very well may get Floridagail's husband discharged. A trustee objection doesn't mean the attorney did anything wrong.