Schedule J

[d80indebt]

After reading quite a few Schedule J threads, I'm nervous about mine. What do you think? Am I going to have to account for these expenses with receipts? I have a breakdown of each line item, so they are accurate.

Example:
Transpo is for 10 year old vehicle
Broken down for fuel, regular maintenance, estimated repairs, and roadside assistance

Also, I read on a couple threads that student loans are not allowable expenses. Is this true?

We are a family of 4 in MN. We fall below the median income at $6544/mo.

== Payroll Deductions ==
Taxes/SS $1,749
Health Ins $317.54
Flex Spend $195.36
Bus $40

== Schedule J ==
Rent $1,100.00
Gas & Elec $165.00
Water/Sewer $90.00
Telephone $92.00
Trash $27.00
Home maintenance $45.00
Renter's Insurance $35.00
Internet $65.00
Food $800.00[*]
Clothing $200.00
Laundry $40.00
Medical $90.00
Flex Spending $192.32
Transpo $360.00
Auto Insurance $125.00
Recreation $50.00
State tax repayment plan $200.00
Student loan $110.00
Student loan (2) $125.00
Child care $500.00
Preschool $110.00
[*] Oldest child has Autism and is on special diet. Primary debtor also has special dietary needs. These account for higher food costs.

Oldest child also needs special services (~$400/mo between TEFRA and modifications) that we haven't been able to afford. Wrote this in under reasonably anticipated expenses within a year. I have an itemized list along with associated costs.

[tobee43]

someone will chime in if i'm incorrect on this, however from what i know no. student loan payments do not factor into eligibility for Chapter 7, either on the means test or on Schedules "I" and "J".

you're food costs almost seem low to me, we moved to florida and i couldn't believe how expensive food is. $200 a week sounds reasonable for a family of 4. i don't if you have medical insurance or not but also $90 seems low to me as well if you don't have medical insurance?

[catleg]

They will ding you for food and student loans. You shouldn't include flexible spending as a payroll deduction.
However as a below median debtor you have greater flexibility on expenses than the IRS allowances.
You should document every medical and special needs expense.
You might also want to get a newer used car with financing since secured debt is a legitimate expense...assuming you can afford it.
You can also take out term life and disability insurance to increase deductions.
You can also increase deduction for auto insurance by reducing deductibles to zero. Likewise with renters insurance.
Edit: Be sure and use at least the full allowances here: http://www.justice.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa..._standards.htm
Personal care i.e. haircuts seems to get left out a lot

[tobee43]

you think food??? actually, we did have a comment from our trustee when she read our schedule, but it was "good" comment, saying don't let my husband see how much you spend on food, i will never hear the end of it.

like i was going to be running into her husband anytime soon? LOL!

if one has special needs and can only be on a certain diet which is more costly i would attach a note from a doctor. i know for the past year we have had to purchase, (because on of us being so ill) special food that costs out of pocket alone over 1k monthly. it was by doctor's orders. we didn't have that when we filed, but i wouldn't of had a problem putting it in. that being said, you atty most likely knows the trustees behaviors in your district and i would just run it by them.

good ideas from cat to cover or uncover more hidden expenses we don't think about daily.

[catleg]

there is an old proverb about filling out expense reports.
a salesman submits his expenses to his boss, with a line item for a new hat, because he lost it at a business meeting.
boss says, we aren't going to pay for your new hat!
So the salesman submits a new expense report, without the hat, all the numbers are different but the grand total is the same for the revised expense report as the original.
Boss says, how can this be?
He says, "find the hat".

[tobee43]

there is an old proverb about filling out expense reports.
a salesman submits his expenses to his boss, with a line item for a new hat, because he lost it at a business meeting.
boss says, we aren't going to pay for your new hat!
So the salesman submits a new expense report, without the hat, all the numbers are different but the grand total is the same for the revised expense report as the original.
Boss says, how can this be?
He says, "find the hat".

LOL!! good one!

[catleg]

Remember that the single best way to get from chapter 13 to chapter 7 is through the deduction for secured debts.
My lawyer gave me a marked up version of the form 22C by the trustee's paralegal.
You are entitled to deduct amounts contractually due over the next 60 months, divided by 60 (i.e. monthly payment).
So if there is a balloon payment, you can include 1/60 of that in your expenses.
Otherwise since interest is contractually due, be sure to add up the sum of your payments including interest.
So, if you are a couple, getting two cars financed at whatever umpteen percent interest rate can be very beneficial to you.
You can always surrender them during the BK process or after, you'll just lose your down payment.
This is advice that your lawyer is forbidden by law to give you :-)
I am not a lawyer, fortunately.

[catleg]

I'll just add that Schedule J and the 22A/22C form don't really line up and you have to do a careful reconciliation between the two. If you are below median the Schedule I/J is considered the more significant.

[d80indebt]

Thanks for all of the helpful replies.

I should not have listed the student loans. I also should have upped my expenses in certain areas to make up for areas that are a little chunky.

Soooo... should I amend? Is that even possible?

(I filed pro se on Feb 28 to stop garnishment. Absolutely no money for an attorney. I have the NOLO book and have been reading various Bk boards. I am amazed at how much there is to know. I consider myself to be pretty smart and I definitely catch on quick. However, Bk is a tough one. You're encouraged to pad the truth in certain areas -- because your true situation isn't valid. Crazy!)

[Floridagail]

Since you are below median, I would leave it alone.

[catleg]

The worst thing you can do in BK court is give the appearance of deceit.
I would let the trustee come back at you with objections before trying to amend if necessary.

[d80indebt]

I figured that was the case. Amending could cause further scrutiny.

Thanks!

[Pizza]

someone will chime in if i'm incorrect on this, however from what i know no. student loan payments do not factor into eligibility for Chapter 7, either on the means test or on Schedules "I" and "J".

It could be located based, but student loans are permissible on Schedule J in my district (Northern District of Texas), and the lawyer is including them on my paperwork. It is NOT a factor in the means test.

The OP is below the median so, far the most part, should probably relax.

[momofthree]

Is there a reason that Flex spending is listed both as a payroll deduction AND an expense? TT may see that as double-dipping. You also have a medical expense listed, isn't that generally what Flex spending is for? I also have a child with autism and we're following the DAN proticol, which costs a fortune, so if that's what it's for, then the receipts should cover it, but it looks like a red flag the way that it's presented.

Do you ever get a tax refund? Your tax withholding looks really high. If you are over withholding (getting a refund each year), then they will consider that as DMI as well.

Buying a newer car with a payment may be a good idea at this point.

[catleg]

Sadly he has filed already